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Author Topic: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal  (Read 310 times)

Offline Marwardo

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1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« on: July 21, 2020, 11:34:47 PM »
Dear all

I have just reinstalled a brand new head on my Ford Galaxy 1,9 TDI due to the old head leaking due to warping.

Alas now it won’t start :-/
It turns over fine and the camshaft torque angle is 4,4 deg, but it comes with the fault code “camshaft position sensor (g40) implausible signal”

I can so far come up with two possible
Issues - 1) I have installed the camshaft 180 deg Wrong (is that possible?) or 2) the fuel injector adjustment is wrong.

Ad 1) I have aligned the crankshaft at TDC for piston 1 (cylinder nearest timing belt) and the camshaft with both exhaust and inlet cams pointing upwards in a “V” and the arrow above the camshaft sensor Pointing in between the two closest taps On the camshaft wheel. Is that correct?

Ad 2) I have adjusted each fuel injector With the inlet cam pointing Up towards the Roller, then turning the setting screw until resistance and then turning 180 deg counter clockwise before locking them. While not engaged, the rocker for the fuel injector is free to move is that correct?

I have went over the Ford TIS over and over again, but there descriptions are a little vague.

So I’m hoping very much for your help! Any obvious mistakes I have done?

Kindest regards
Martin

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2020, 08:10:48 AM »
If I was you I would get the PD proper locking tools and set timing up with those so you know it is perfect. From memory the camshaft lock is at approx 7 o’clock. The crank has a mark that lines up with the tool that you place on the sprocket.

Once you have done that back the injector adjusters off slightly and rotate the engine until you get each one at the dead point between opening and closing then do the adjustment don’t rely just on the lobe position watch the rocker to get it at the exact point. Ideally you need a DTI but can be done without.

Once you are sure everything is timed correctly if fault persists replace the cam sensor as a faulty one will stop engine running. You could just replace that anyway but I fear with how you have set up the timing it could well be not quite right.


Also not related to the fault you have but did you replace the seals on injectors? If not then I would do them as it will save you hassle in the future.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 08:13:55 AM by johnnyroper »

Offline SirDavidAlhambra

  • Sir David Alhambra.
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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2020, 08:39:15 AM »
This sounds like such a difficult and technical job.

Have u checked the basics, for example making sure that fuel is running freely instead of just pumping air for example
I drive a Seat Alhambra 1.9Tdi which has 115bhp and an automatic gearbox.

I am happy to help you with all your questions. I am not a qualified mechanic but seem to be better at fixing my car than even the most experienced garages.

I have lots of friends here and very much enjoy talking with you all.

Always remember, a motor car is a serious tool and should be treated with respect. Put your safety first, always.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2020, 09:09:28 AM »
With the implausible cam sensor you can discount fuel supply at this stage, if ECU does not know position of cam it will never fire injectors on a PD engine

Offline Marwardo

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2020, 09:40:21 AM »
Thank you very much for your replies!

@johnnyroper
Since I’m getting proper readings from the cam sensor in vcds (it changes consistently when timing is retarded and advanced) wouldn’t that mean it is ok?

I know the crankshaft is dead on TDC with the mentioned tool. It is the camshaft I’m a bit uncertain of I haven’t seen the camshaft tool, how does that look?
As far as I can see the camshaft only has to slots where the 6mm pin can be placed on the camshaft, so could I have Chosen the wrong one? And how do I tell?
You mentioned the 7 o’clock Is that the 6mm hole you are referring to?

All seals are brand new and installed by a proper cylinder specialist. That is the reason it is a new head instead of refurbishing the old, that they wouldn’t guarantee that the injectors wouldn’t leek due to the injector mating faces being ruined over time.

@SirDavidAlhambra
That is a good suggestion, could there be air trapped in the system? And how to test if fuel is getting all the way throug?

@johnnyroper
That’s is a good point, the key to solve this is to fix that error message then.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2020, 09:50:24 AM »
The cam lock is indeed a 6mm pin hole in head at 7 o’clock and if I recall correctly the hole in cam hub once locked up the cutout on sprocket with the little teeth at about 11-12 o’clock. Lock it up and see what position crank is in when cam timed.

If you are sure of timing being correct then check out the cam sensor, have you plugged back in properly and is wiring ok? If nothing found change the sensor.

I can’t help thinking there is a timing problem though.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2020, 09:56:33 AM »
Here you go this is taken from cambelt change write up in ref library.


It’s been a while since I worked on a PD but is there any chance you could have plugged cam and crank sensors round wrong way? I seem to recall they both plug in same place at front of engine. Can’t for life of me remember if they have different plugs or not
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 10:07:01 AM by johnnyroper »

Offline Marwardo

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2020, 12:07:03 PM »
Thx a lot! :-D

Went over it all again. Turned the crankshaft to TDC (as seen in the “Window” on the picture - corresponds perfectly with the crankshaft tool as verified when I had it disassembled.)
The 6 mm pin goes nicely all the way in the hole on the camshaft.

Camshaft sensor plug goes into the right plug on the front side.

-still no starting and same fault:-/

Just beats me why I get a ok reading in vcds on the synchro angle I thought that reading is from the camshaft sensor?!

Guess I will have to try and change it and see if that works

Offline Marwardo

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2020, 12:12:35 PM »
Synchro angle from vcds
I also note that it says 0 mg/str injected quantity which corresponds perfectly with what you stated @johnnyroper when the camshaft sensor is not outputting a proper signal

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2020, 12:44:47 PM »
Looking at that I would move the sprocket on the 3 13mm bolts to get it more central, when I was messing with the syncro angle on mine I found it could go out of limits. It’s showing 5 on your screenshot I seem to remember that is the max reading. It’s a bit misleading though as you don’t get a true reading until engine is up to operating temp.

Time it up again and lock camshaft then slack 18mm bolt and move camshaft slightly to centralise the bolts. If that gets it running you can always get it up to temp and check syncro angle and adjust accordingly

Offline Marwardo

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2020, 02:42:09 PM »
Tried shifting the timing a bit both around 2,5 and 1 but with no luck.

Tested fuel from high pressure pump return and that seems ok.

Tested camshaft sensor and output seems good - 5V from sensor wire and going to 0,1mV when each tap passes. Also tried testing resistance between the terminals and that came back with out of range?! Read from internet page that it should be around 2kOhm? Does anybody know about that?

Was thinking about trying with starter fluid to just test wether it will start at all. But I don’t have any lying around so will have to go out and get some.

Offline vectrac20tsri

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2020, 02:46:06 PM »
I had a faulty cam sensor before fitting a new cam shaft and after, the car will still run just sometimes takes a little longer to fire I can provide a video.

I have just ordered some new injector seals and I upgraded mine to AL 150s I should of changed them at the tie but live and learn.

First start took a long time to start, I'm not sure if this is due to fuel delivery / air in the system ect but it eventually fired, at first it sounded like low compression and I was sure I had messed up but not just a good 5 minutes of cranking and it fired up.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2020, 03:04:39 PM »
Easy start sprayed in will get it to fire assuming compression etc is good. Whether it stays running is another thing. I think you need to replace the sensor now as you have checked the timing etc. So long as you have got active implausible signal it will never fire on its own.

After I did my head it took some cranking to get air out the fuel and it to start but it didn’t generate a cam sensor code.

Offline vectrac20tsri

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2020, 03:28:38 PM »
mine runs fine with no signal from the cam sensor, after researching google the pd will run with just the crank sensor alone, only symptom is it take a few seconds longer to fire.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14OYcPAiBtMwVF6rhn9F5TFP6pwP7x0C2/view?usp=sharing

Offline vectrac20tsri

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2020, 03:30:21 PM »
Only difference is my fault was there before and after not just after the work I carried out. still best practice to replace it though it will also eliminate it, but I always recommend genuine as aftermarket sensors are hit and miss.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2020, 05:29:16 PM »
That’s not how i thought it was,how does ECU know cam position to fire the correct injector?
Also there have been a few particularly when hot that a failed cam sensor stopped car starting?

Offline Marwardo

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2020, 06:33:19 PM »
Thank you all for your valuable inputs and knowledge! :-D

@vectrac20tsri I disconnected the camshaft sensor and that did kill the implausible sensor error and replaced it with the no signal error as you showed, but alas no starting still after cranking for more than a minute a couple of times.:-/

Tried with starter spray and that made it run for a few seconds each time. So I guess that points toward an issue with the fuel injectors not doing their work?!
But how to test that?

Offline Marwardo

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2020, 10:43:16 PM »
No luck yet but at least verified the timing and camshaft installation is right.

The camshaft wheel (Not the sprocket) has 3 holes that align up with the 6mm timing hole in the side of the head. They are spaced 120 deg apart And that makes it possible to assemble it 120 and 240 deg wrong.

But both wrong installations will result in either the inlet or the outlet valve striking the piston (see calculation in picture, sorry for skinny handwriting ;-)).
Therefore the timing is correct and there’s got to be another explanation for the “implausible signal” error.
I hope it will vanish with the new sensor installed  tomorrow.





Offline johnnyroper

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2020, 10:47:58 PM »
How’s the crank sensor? Do you get engine rpm feedback on vcds?
The implausible code is generated by a discrepancy between cam and crank positions so if the crank sensor is having a wobble it could trigger it along with non starting. Main cause of implausible signal is timing though.

Have you double checked all wiring to make sure noting been damaged and no earths been left off by mistake? You just need to retrace your steps engine ran prior to head change so it must be something that has been disturbed.




Offline johnnyroper

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2020, 10:50:38 PM »
No luck yet but at least verified the timing and camshaft installation is right.

The camshaft wheel (Not the sprocket) has 3 holes that align up with the 6mm timing hole in the side of the head. They are spaced 120 deg apart And that makes it possible to assemble it 120 and 240 deg wrong.

But both wrong installations will result in either the inlet or the outlet valve striking the piston (see calculation in picture, sorry for skinny handwriting ;-)).
Therefore the timing is correct and there’s got to be another explanation for the “implausible signal” error.
I hope it will vanish with the new sensor installed  tomorrow.






I was going to ask that but you said at tdc the cam lobes are up so the hole in cam hub has to be correct., are all the little pegs on cam sprocket ok and not bent? I damaged one of mine when it was all stripped down and didn’t notice until putting back together

Offline vectrac20tsri

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2020, 11:38:41 PM »
It must use the crank sensor for injector timing, this is why it takes longer to start when the cam sensor fails, but as posted above if there is a issue with crank sensor it can through a code for the cam sensor.

Mine took ages to start, I had to have it hooked on jump leads

Can you do a compression test?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2020, 12:06:20 AM »
It must use the crank sensor for injector timing, this is why it takes longer to start when the cam sensor fails, but as posted above if there is a issue with crank sensor it can through a code for the cam sensor.

Mine took ages to start, I had to have it hooked on jump leads

Can you do a compression test?

Strange how the cam wheel has 4 sets of prongs for the sensor to pick up,in your case then with longer crank time ECU must revert to a base setting that assumes engine is in time. Longer cranks must be it confirming engine position based on crank sensor feedback.


Offline vectrac20tsri

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2020, 01:14:18 PM »
That sounds exactly right.

Offline SirDavidAlhambra

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Re: 1,9 TDI Camshaft Injector settings after renewal
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2020, 09:00:29 AM »
Impressive... does this mean he needs to replace the Crank Sensor now or is it a case of resetting the engine computer perhaps. So impressive how u guys know all this really technical stuff about engines

 [GJ]
I drive a Seat Alhambra 1.9Tdi which has 115bhp and an automatic gearbox.

I am happy to help you with all your questions. I am not a qualified mechanic but seem to be better at fixing my car than even the most experienced garages.

I have lots of friends here and very much enjoy talking with you all.

Always remember, a motor car is a serious tool and should be treated with respect. Put your safety first, always.

 

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