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Author Topic: 1.9 TDI PD fuel starvation/ judder while acceleration  (Read 1835 times)

Offline christiant

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 TDI 115 Zetec
  • Region: Non UK
1.9 TDI PD fuel starvation/ judder while acceleration
« on: July 07, 2018, 02:15:35 PM »
Hi guys I'm new to the forum. I have a galaxy mk2 1.9 pd which has a problem while the engine is under load, seems like fuel starvation.
I have replaced the camshaft as it was worn, adjusted injectors and torsion value. I have no oil in fuel or vice versa. The car also has a new MAF, cleaned intake and turbo vanes, new fuel filter, new injector wiring loom. I have also cleaned the in tank fuel filter and the lift pump seems to be working but unsure what pressure it creates. The car has a juddering problem while accelerating, no fault codes, stats and runs fine. The tandem pump is a suspect, but it isn't leaking and vacuum seems fine. I dont know how I can diagnose it. I've run out of ideas... Looking for advice what else to check, and how to proceed from here on.

Offline Chrispb

  • Mindsaysyesbodysaysnono
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  • Posts: 3024
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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2 Auto
  • Spec: 52reg TDI 115 Ghia
  • First Name: Chris
  • Region: South East
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: 1.9 TDI PD fuel starvation/ judder while acceleration
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2018, 06:04:10 PM »
Hello and  welcome5

What are you using to check for fault codes?

The MK2 diesel galaxy is VW engine so you will need VCDS or Vagcom to grab some live data on turbo boost pressures, MAF and MAP readings and EGR valve.

You can get a lead on ebay quite cheap and download the free software from Ross tech, all the info on installing and using is in the knowledge base menu above.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline christiant

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  • Posts: 96
  • Thanked: 3
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 TDI 115 Zetec
  • Region: Non UK
Re: 1.9 TDI PD fuel starvation/ judder while acceleration
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2018, 08:15:03 PM »
Hello,

I am using VCDS, and no codes, injectors show good values group 13, torsion value close to 0, followed through all the recommendations. I also checked temperature sensor readings, all seem fine.
Today I also swapped the T-valve on the fuel filter and got a see trough hose for the feed between the tandem pump and filter, no bubbles. The lift pump is working, but I have no means to check the pressure. When I put the ignition on and disconnect the fuel line only a small amount of diesel comes out. Since I got the car it was never right because of the worn cam and sticking turbo vanes, so I have nothing to compare it to, and now when I solved those issues this I discovered this problem. I am narrowing it down to a fuel starvation problem because it only occurs during acceleration, and it runs very well otherwise, no boost problems, starts on the button and sounds healthy. It does accelerate well at lower rpm and low gears, however on 4th, 5th, 6th and between 2-4k rpm it feels like its missing and has lack of power. No smoke comes out of the exhaust either... Forgot to mention tried another MAF, still the same...

Offline christiant

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  • Posts: 96
  • Thanked: 3
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 TDI 115 Zetec
  • Region: Non UK
Re: 1.9 TDI PD fuel starvation/ judder while acceleration
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2018, 10:28:42 PM »
I got some live data, wanted to add this as an edit to my previous reply, but can't edit. Not sure if posting actual screenshots of the logs would be useful because there are quite a few. I logged MAF and boost(measuring block 3 and 11). Found the MAF to be in spec, however boost pressure goes to 2200mbar and drops to 1400mbar and then picks up again at full throttle. That's probably when the missing/judder occurs. When I cleaned the turbo vanes I replaced the N75 valve and actuator as well but unsure on the adjustment and just measured the length against the old one...No boost related codes though. Will look into logging injected quantity, egr, anything else to look for and which measuring blocks to log?

Offline johnnyroper

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 tdi 115 ghia
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: 1.9 TDI PD fuel starvation/ judder while acceleration
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2018, 11:06:27 PM »
To me it sounds more like incorrect actuator rod length of the boost is off especially after you have replaced it.

You can crudely adjust the turbo using a vac pump, actuator should start to move at 3-5 hgvac and reach max movement at 17-9 hgvac. Also if you have had turbo apart might be worth checking the vane gap also. Back off stop screw and adjust until it just touches then go 1 full turn. That should give vane gap about right.

As for the lift pump with feed pipe in a bottle mine have a good squirt on first purge after putting ignition on,roughly 1/3 of a 500ml coke bottle if I remember correctly. From memory lift pump pressure is around 0.5-0.9 bar tandem pump then lifts it to just under 2 bar. The injectors then lift it higher again.

Offline christiant

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 TDI 115 Zetec
  • Region: Non UK
Re: 1.9 TDI PD fuel starvation/ judder while acceleration
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2018, 07:25:33 AM »
I went on and investigated further, turbo seems fine as when the car is stationary or driven in traffic it builds pressure and drives fine for first 30 secs and accelerates well, goes all the way to 4k rpm then when driven a bit more it starts juddering. Same happens when coasting and then going in gear and accelerating. The loss of boost is probably no combustion for a second and therefore less exhaust gas to create boost. I don't have a vacuum pump but I will try to get a hold of one to adjust the actuator properly.

 I was advised it could be loss of fuel pressure in the head, due to injector seals or bad tandem pump. Because the injector bores on the head have slight scoring I dont want go trough getting the injectors out again as they seem to be holding and there is evidence of the tandem pump previously being sealed with silicone sealant, I went on and ordered a second hand one, with a different last letter in the part number made by Bosch instead of the original LUK one, which in theory should fit straight on. I will post the results when I get it. The number of the original one is 038145209A, the one I am getting is 038145209C. I've been advised they are interchangeable, can anyone confirm this?

Offline johnnyroper

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 tdi 115 ghia
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: 1.9 TDI PD fuel starvation/ judder while acceleration
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2018, 08:37:10 AM »
Yes the tandem pumps are interchangeable you will just need the Bosch gasket and possibly alter fuel pipes depending on length as take off points slightly different.

Have you thought about injector loom breaking down they could also explain the symptoms

Offline Chrispb

  • Mindsaysyesbodysaysnono
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  • Posts: 3024
  • Thanked: 112
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2 Auto
  • Spec: 52reg TDI 115 Ghia
  • First Name: Chris
  • Region: South East
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: 1.9 TDI PD fuel starvation/ judder while acceleration
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2018, 09:08:52 AM »
Its usual when making a log file to log 003, 010, 011 together, once you have the log file open with Excel and should look similar to these shown below.
Note you need to drive the vehicle on open road preferably up hill stretches with 100% throttle (flat out) as near to 3000 RPM as possible


https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-common-faults-and-problems/galaxy-tdi-using-vcdsvag-com-to-diagnose-faults/

Another thought is relay 109  the power supply relay for engine ECU and sensors, when this fails usually from poor soldering joints the engine will not run but can still cause running issues if there is a break in power supply, you will not receive any fault code for this but may get a flashing glow plug light if the break in power is long enough.

Not heard of high pressure pump giving symptoms your getting but they do suffer external leaks, internal leaks from pump and injectors will result in raised engine oil level.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline christiant

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 TDI 115 Zetec
  • Region: Non UK
Re: 1.9 TDI PD fuel starvation/ judder while acceleration
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2018, 04:19:30 PM »
So I logged it again with but with someone sat next to me looking at the readings, the boost is actually fine sits at 2.1 bar at full throttle under load, I had confusion with the graph because I was probably letting go of the throttle and I found it hard to read with VC scope because no legend. However I pulled the fuel lines from the sender again, even though i cleaned it recently there was black sooty stuff on the metal screen filter again, not as much but some and there is some clearly visible in the fuel lines, the one for the auxiliary heater looking pretty much blocked, but it never worked, so maybe thats why. I tried applying vacuum at the front at the pick up line and there is an obstruction, definitely doesn't flow right. By the look of things I will be needing a new tank and I will try to blow trough the lines with compressed air... Has anyone ran into this? The in tank pump is working but the sender doest seem to flow freely too. Btw I chucked some fuel system cleaner in it prior to this and filled it right up, perhaps this has freed some dirt somewhere in the tank.

Offline christiant

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
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Re: 1.9 TDI PD fuel starvation/ judder while acceleration
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2018, 04:21:20 PM »
Forgot to mention it now started chucking a bit of white smoke on start up and it seems like its missing for about 10 seconds...

Offline johnnyroper

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 tdi 115 ghia
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: 1.9 TDI PD fuel starvation/ judder while acceleration
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2018, 05:25:39 PM »
In that case I would be suspecting injectors leaking over time,you could try a decent additive and see how it goes

Offline christiant

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  • Posts: 96
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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 TDI 115 Zetec
  • Region: Non UK
Re: 1.9 TDI PD fuel starvation/ judder while acceleration
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2018, 05:58:30 PM »
Finally got it sorted after so many parts and head scratching! It was indeed the tandem pump, even though I blew the lines from the filter back to the sender with compressed air. Runs like a dream now.

 

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