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Author Topic: Air Con Wiring Diagram  (Read 15019 times)

Offline edc

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Air Con Wiring Diagram
« on: July 04, 2015, 07:32:50 PM »
Hi Guys,

Can anyone help me with a wiring diagram for a 150PS TDI  Ghia Galaxy. Build date 06/07/2005.

It's got dual climate control and a single radiator fan.

The air con compressor is not working, things I have checked:
1) Compressor spins by hand so I don't think its seized
2) The ambient air temp is correct on the climate panel and the dash read out.
3) Not voltage at the compressor clutch plug, air con on or off
4) Radiator fan does not start when the aircon is switch on (Auto)
5) No error codes on VCDS

None of the wiring diags I have found so far match (ie my pressure switch has 3 wires not 4), so its proving a little difficult to test or bypass anything.

Kwik fit have tested the fill and they indicated its ok. They filled it last year after we had the pipes to the back replaced and it work ok for a year.

Fingers crossed someone out there can help, the kids are getting crabby with the heat. :-)

Thanks,
Ed

Offline edc

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Re: Air Con Wiring Diagram
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2015, 09:39:08 AM »
I have replaced relay 454 and still no luck. Can anyone help with a diagram?

Cheers.

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Air Con Wiring Diagram
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2015, 11:22:54 AM »
A bit awkward because the year of your car is not covered by the  usual TIS that most people have, anyway this is the latest one for the 130 engine that has the 3 terminal pressure sensor
3713-0

Have you checked all the fuses especially the low amperage fuses as there are several that cover aircon, is there any other electrical that's not working.

Will see if I can find the pinpoint test for the same year it may help.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Air Con Wiring Diagram
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2015, 11:41:06 AM »
No luck the pinpoint test is only for the four terminal pressure switch.
Am really surprised VCDS is not picking up any faults, are you sure it's actually connecting to the modules, does it actually say "No faults found" or some other message.
Do you have the free version or are you registered so you can use the autoscan function if not you may need to scan the other relevant modules EG. Engine.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline edc

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Re: Air Con Wiring Diagram
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2015, 05:01:01 PM »
Hi Chris,

Thanks for the diagram, that helps a lot.

I have to admit I am confused by the lack of faults also. I am using VCDS lite and have worked through all the modules scanning for faults. No faults reported anywhere apart from OC/SC on the aux heater glowplug which I know is not working.

I was  able to monitor temperatures and interior fan voltages from HVAC unit so I think the comms with the module is good. I would have expected a faulty pressure sensor to output a square wave being 0% or 100% duty cycle. So I think that is ok.

Looking at the diagram I will go back and recheck the PCM for fault codes as I see that the pressure sensor also signals that. I have not re-scanned since I tried swapping the Clutch module so I should check that again.

I think the ambient external air temp sensor is also ok as the climatronic unit is showing the correct temperature.

I have checked all the fuses both in the passenger fuse box and the engine bay box by the battery (at least 3 times  :) ) and they are all good.

I note that the radiator fan is not switching on when the aircon is turned on. So is the fan not working because the aircon is not working or is the aircon not working because the fan is not working?

Looking at the AC Compressor clutch module socket  I am expecting to see:

Pin 1 - Square wave from the Pressure Sensor
Pin 2 - connection to ground
Pin 3 - "On" signal from the Climatronic unit. Not sure if this will be 12v high or something else.
Pin 4 - 12v supply
Pin 6 - Shorted to pin 7.  This would be where a Evaporator temperature sensor would go if it was fitted.
Pin 7 - see above
Pin 8 - 12v output to magnetic clutch
Pin 9 - Digital link to the PCM?


Oh what fun :-)

Cheers,
Ed



Offline edc

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Re: Air Con Wiring Diagram
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2015, 07:12:28 PM »
Just to confirm - no faults picked up anywhere.   Disconnected the pressure sensor - Low pressure fault showed up on 01-engine. Cleared the fault and reconnected the sensor and no faults appear. So pretty sure the pressure sensor is working unless there is some giant hole in my logic.
Cheers.

Offline Mirez

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Re: Air Con Wiring Diagram
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2015, 12:55:55 AM »
Just some notes:

Pin 1 - Should be a logic state, I'd be very surprised if the pressure sensor is generating any sort of signal. Typically in this type of application, 12V High is used as the On (1 State) and therefore anything lower then about 8V would be regarded as a fault (0 State)

Pin 3 - Again I would expect this to be a logic signal, 12V high to tell the compressor to run.

Pin 9 - Brown Blue is normally the K-Line so yes that will be your comms, most likely the module telling the ECU its activating the compressor and to kick up the revs.

However I think there are three key points you need to concentrate on from earlier points you made:
1) No voltage at the compressor clutch plug, air con on or off
2) Radiator fan does not start when the aircon is switch on (Auto)
3) No error codes

If there isn't an error code then the system either can't see the error or (and imo probably more likely) the system is working normally but one or more signals are inhibiting it.

So first thing to note is that the twin fans are just dumb fans, there isn't any reporting. I'm 80% sure the single fan is the same so a fault won't show if the fan is defective (unless the control circuit itself is). That said if it were to have failed it still shouldn't cause the AC to not function (although its cooling effect would be massively reduced when stationery).

Secondly, things that could cause a full inhibit during normal working conditions. 
1) Coolant Temperature Switch- This is independent of the reading you get on the cluster and will kill the A/C if it thinks the engine temp is excessive.
2) Load-Shed Relay - Used to drop non-critical circuits (A/C Being one of them)
3) WoT Relay - Used to drop power hungry devices under Wide Open Throttle (Again A/C being one of them)
4) Ambient Temperature Switch (Not fitted to most Galaxy's but a 2005 probably has an A/C system closer to that of the V6 so probably is fitted to yours)

I'd start with checking out the coolant temperature sensor, you can see it poking down in the top left of this pic:

3715-0

You should be able to remove the connector and bridge the terminals, IIRC the switch is closed when temperature is normal and open when its considered excessive.
03 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 115 Ghia in Spruce Green Metallic
With cream leather interior, Full Bodykit, Remapped at 145bhp, Lowered on 18's
06 VW EOS 2.0 T-FSI 210 Sport in Deep Black Pearl
With red leather interior with full Caractere bodykit, Remapped at 255bhp and sitting on 19's
14 VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI 177 R-Line in Deep Black Pearl
With black leather interior, panoramic sunroof and bi-xenon headlights.
08 Ford Transit 2.2 TDI 115 in Frozen White
With retrofitted everything except another slidey door! :)

VCDS HEX/CAN - Scans/Coding done in Wiltshire in exchange for winegums! :)

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Air Con Wiring Diagram
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2015, 12:58:58 PM »
Mark
Um that last part with the radiator switch if that's correct could simply be a wire broken off from the connector to give the open circuit so that gives a possible cause for the aircon not working but not the cooling fan unless the fan motor has an issue.

Ed perhaps you can test your cooling fan with a direct feed just to make sure it's working.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline Mirez

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Re: Air Con Wiring Diagram
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2015, 01:28:04 PM »
Hey Chris, I stand to be corrected on this but my understanding is that with the single fan setup, the A/C system controls the low fan speed and the ECU controls both low and full power.

Again, I stand to be corrected but I believe the coolant switch in the rad is only used by the A/C system. If the A/C controller has disabled the system due to what it think's is high coolant temperature it would expect the ECU to have the fan already running. Since the ECU is using another temperature sensor (presumably with good data) then it won't have the fans on. I don't think we can conclude either one way or the other that the fan should be running as we don't know how that side of the system operates on the single fan setup.



03 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 115 Ghia in Spruce Green Metallic
With cream leather interior, Full Bodykit, Remapped at 145bhp, Lowered on 18's
06 VW EOS 2.0 T-FSI 210 Sport in Deep Black Pearl
With red leather interior with full Caractere bodykit, Remapped at 255bhp and sitting on 19's
14 VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI 177 R-Line in Deep Black Pearl
With black leather interior, panoramic sunroof and bi-xenon headlights.
08 Ford Transit 2.2 TDI 115 in Frozen White
With retrofitted everything except another slidey door! :)

VCDS HEX/CAN - Scans/Coding done in Wiltshire in exchange for winegums! :)

Offline Chrispb

  • Mindsaysyesbodysaysnono
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Re: Air Con Wiring Diagram
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2015, 03:52:39 PM »
Your explanation is most likely to be correct Mark but doesn't it seem incredible that there still has to be an amount of guess work because the diagnostic's cannot see a fault.
I did look at the Elsawin diagram which I find harder to follow than the TIS but it does show reference to an ambient temperature switch on the 2005-2006 sharans but when you check it's location it points to the one on the wiper linkage for the booster heater which don't seem right also some cooling fans have a relay actually on the fan motor but doesn't stipulate any particular model, thought this might confuse the issue even more if I'd added more diagrams. 
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline Mirez

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Re: Air Con Wiring Diagram
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2015, 04:31:15 PM »
Well that's why I think the system is working normally and probably just inhibited because of some squiffy data. The easiest analogy I can use is the booster heater, when its above 10*c the system is deliberately inhibited. No fault is logged in this situation because the system is designed to work like this. Going back to the A/C system, if the coolant temperature sensor is telling the A/C system that it's excessively high, the A/C will inhibit and wait for this signal to change but no fault will ever be logged because it's a normal part of the system.

Don't forget the diagnostic tech level on the Mk2 Galaxy didn't change from MY2000 right through (even on the Alhambras and Sharans until 2010), it was probably developed some 5 years before that so it's 1995 engineering when car diagnostic systems were still in their infancy. I suspect the Mk3 variants probably have much more sophisticated software that can logically determine stuck signals.

Likewise, I looked at the Elsawin circuits and whilst I also find them much more confusing I came across the same. I'd also be surprised if the aux heaters sensor is used but you can't rule it out as the 150 isn't well documented and Ford may have taken the whole setup from VAG at the time. The cooling fan's where the relay is built into the motor should be the single fan variants where the controller is integrated and not external as with the majority.
03 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 115 Ghia in Spruce Green Metallic
With cream leather interior, Full Bodykit, Remapped at 145bhp, Lowered on 18's
06 VW EOS 2.0 T-FSI 210 Sport in Deep Black Pearl
With red leather interior with full Caractere bodykit, Remapped at 255bhp and sitting on 19's
14 VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI 177 R-Line in Deep Black Pearl
With black leather interior, panoramic sunroof and bi-xenon headlights.
08 Ford Transit 2.2 TDI 115 in Frozen White
With retrofitted everything except another slidey door! :)

VCDS HEX/CAN - Scans/Coding done in Wiltshire in exchange for winegums! :)

Offline edc

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Re: Air Con Wiring Diagram
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2015, 01:52:29 PM »
Mark, Chris,
Thanks for all your help on this.  I spent the whole weekend fitting kitchen cupboards and worktops so no playing with the AC for me.  I'll get back to it this weekend coming. 

I have been trying to deduce how things work by looking at how VW have used the same components in other cars. For instance the GW65 pressure sensor, I have also managed to find a reference to the pressure sensor duty cycle percentage in the PCM measuring blocks so will check that when I get home on the weekend. But I agree, I think that area is ok and need to look at the cooling sensor area.
Interestingly enough whilst looking at wiring diagrams for other vehicles have helped, some of it make life worse. A T5 uses the same magnetic clutch control "relay", yet the diagrams have the terminal numbers reversed compared to the Galaxy wiring.... It is exactly the same part number so one of those diagrams is wrong  ;)
I can understand why none of the local garages here want to touch it. But the challenge is on now and although it will take some time I'm not give up until it's working.
Cheers,
Ed

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Air Con Wiring Diagram
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2015, 03:20:27 PM »
Glad to hear your not giving up on it, there are so many posts on this subject with the same problem with no outcome very frustrating, it's a shame your not closer I wouldn't mind having a go with this myself, don't forget to take any pics that may help for future reference.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline edc

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Re: Air Con Wiring Diagram
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2015, 10:55:28 AM »
Hi Guys,
Slow progress so far as I have to fit diagnosis around the wife driving it...

I did some more reading around on using VCDS and realised the label file for the engine was not being read. The module was 038-906-019-NP so I copied 038-906-019-ARL.lbl (150bhp engine) to 038-906-019-NP.lbl and now the descriptive labels are more helpful.

Looking at grp 2 (Idle Speed) the "Increase idle speed as AC is on" and "AC compressor switch on" are always set to off, no matter what the climatronic settings.

The climatronic module is 7M5-907-040-AB and looking around I see that the label file for this is only on the full version of VCDS. It would be helpful to know exactly what the measurement blocks are.


I tested the radiator coolant temp sensor, (G83) it read 2K Ohms which indicates about 20c (about ambient at the time). With the sensor disconnected the PCM threw a fault code for G83 signal too low, which I hope at least indicates the wiring is working. Going to test with  5k ohm resistor (5 degrees C) and a  1k ohm resistor (45 degrees C) next.

Not got to the aux heater ambient temp switch(sensor?) yet,  but I have noted that the Aux heater is not throwing a code for the bad glowplug - which I think only happens when its tries to start. It did in the winter. So it looks at least as if the aux heater ambient temp switch is saying its warm enough not to need the aux heater.( Hence does not try to start and hence no DTC stored).

So far all of the sensors I have looked at do not appear to be "switch" types and all look to be read by a control module which then triggers something else. So as far as the engine is concerned the air con is off.

I am not sure how to confirm the fan is working with a direct feed?  The control unit on the single fan has four connectors, two big cables for +12v and Gnd ( which I have checked for continuity and resistance, all ok) plus two "signals" ( Yellow wire and a Yellow/Black Wire). Not sure what those two wires carry in terms of signals to the fan unit.  When disconnected  a fan fault code is picked up by the PCM. Have a feeling that I read somewhere the fan speed is fully variable, not just off/low/high (but I may have imagined that :-) )

For the moment I am assuming load shedding is ok as there are no other electrical systems not working.

WoT?  Not sure how or where to check that. The measuring blocks for the "go pedal" are correctly showing position and the "Throttle position switch closed" is correct when your foot is off the gas.

Will registering my copy of VCDS lite help?  Will I be able to trigger outputs (for instance to turn the fans on) from that or will I really need the "Full" version?

Cheers,
Ed

Offline edc

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Re: Air Con Wiring Diagram
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2015, 08:03:34 PM »
Just wrote  a long winded blurb on climatronic codes and then it failed to post...

Anyway the short story is:  Found a Climatronic MVB that shows shutoff codes for the compressor.  It's on Grp 8,3

I don't have a proper label file for the 7M5-907-040-AB but looking at other modules the codes look something like this:

0 = Compressor on (no shut-off requirement of the A/C compressor detected)
1 = Compressor off (refrigerant pressure was or is too high)
2 = Compressor off (blower motor circuit)
3 = Compressor off (refrigerant pressure was or is too low)
4 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
5 = Compressor off (no engine start or no engine speed detected)
6 = Compressor off (A/C system switched off, ECON-mode activated)
7 = Compressor off (A/C system switched off, blower switch in position 0)
8 = Compressor off (outside temperature was less than 1.5°C and is still less than 2.5 °C)
9 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
10 = Compressor off (Low voltage)
11 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
12 = Compressor off (shut-off request from Engine Control Module (ECM) via CAN)
13 = Compressor off (voltage supply terminal 30 too high)
14 = Compressor off (Evaporator Temperature)
15 = Compressor off (display not currently intended)
16 = Compressor off (Compressor Activation circuit fault)
17 = Compressor off (no signal or implausible signal from High Pressure Sensor -G65-)
18 = Compressor off (engine speed too high at standstill)
19 = Compressor off (shutoff request from Vehicle Electrical System Control Module via CAN)
20 = Compressor off (refrigerant loss-currently V8 Touareg only)
21 = Compressor off (Outside Temp < 2 degrees C, without recirc mode on)
22 = Compressor off (Outside Temp < 2 degrees C, Inside Temp. < 10 degrees C)

I was able to track through 5 (engine off), 6(econ mode on) and then  finally 16 (with engine running, auto selected).
So it looks like the error may be back on the circuits between the Climatronic (A96) -> Mag Clutch control Module (A302) -> Compressor (N25).  Which was where I started :-). Time for a more thorough inspection.

But for the moment at least I think pressures and temp sensors are ok.  I also suspect if the Climatronic is shutting down the compressor, then nothing will be telling the radiator fan to run.

Can anyone else confirm Shut off code 16?

Cheers

Offline edc

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Re: Air Con Wiring Diagram
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2015, 11:23:06 AM »
Hi Folks,
It's been a while, but here is the progress......

Summary of symptoms:
Air con compressor not engaging
No voltage at the compressor plug
No faults code on vcds at all
ATS had said the gas charge was ok
Checked all the wiring- ok
Clutch coil was 3ohms ( measured from the interior fuse box, relay 454 connections so I know wiring from there to the coil was fine)
Single rad fan not spinning when air con "on"

Digging around in vcds showed the engine management system thinks the air con is always off no matter what the climate control settings were.

In controller 8-HVAC Grp 8,3 there is a block that shows compressor shut off codes. This was showing 16 leading me to think issue was back with relay 454 and its sensors.

I see Rick has done a good write up on this whilst I have been busy so saves me the trouble  :). Cheers Rick.

https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/climate-control-aircon-and-the-g65-pressure-sensor/

Anyway - I Built a digital osciliscope form a kit so I could test the g65 sensor.

http://www.banggood.com/DSO138-DIY-Digital-Oscilloscope-Kit-SMD-Soldered-13803K-Version-p-984002.html

It's quite fiddly and you'll need pretty good soldering skills.

Using this I measured the duty cycle of the signalon pin 1 of relay 454.....2%

That's not good, so either there is no gas (and ATS were wrong ) or the sensor is bust. Bought a new sensor and fitted it. Rather than taking off the front bumper, I took off the offside wheel and went through the front of the wheel arch. Easy job, wheel plus 4 screws.
I noticed that when I took the old sensor off there was no escape of gas from the schraeder valve.....makes me think there is no gas.
Anyway , all back together and still no aircon.
Took it back to ATS and yes you guessed it there is no gas and they can't find a leak.

It's recharged now, and pump is engaged. Getting cold air 10c from th central dash vent with an ambient outside temp of 13c.   Radiator fan Is kicking in with the Aircon coming on. Would have expected colder than this, but it's better than before.

Note to everyone, low gas pressure does not throw a fault code on this car.
Next step is check the condenser for a leak aroud the drier.

Probably another instalment in a month.... :)

Ed

 

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