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Author Topic: At the end of my teather - Heating issues  (Read 9965 times)

Offline GalaxyCharlie

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At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« on: January 22, 2015, 10:48:39 PM »
Hi guys,

I am new to this forum and Galaxy problems in general but here goes, let's see if someone can shed some light on what's happening:

To cut a long long story short, we bought a galaxy with a few issues but had a great deal, it's a TDi Sport (never heard of one before) with all the trimmings, swivel seats, body kit, 18" alloys, uprated suspension, etc .... I cannot for the life of me get the heaters to work, firstly they worked when brought up to temp by sitting and revving at 2,000-2,500rpm.

I changed the timing belt and water pump (even though it had full service history and a recent water pump change, but I like to know that the car my mrs is driving has had it done all recently for peace of mind), the pump is of the metal impeller kind as the one on it was of the plastic kind, it was ok but I thought I'd upgrade it to make sure.

I have done the following:

Filled with antifreeze (50/50) as it was running to try and save on airlocks
I have put a hose through the radiator to make sure there is no blockage
I have blasted the rad with a jet wash
I have refurbished the auxiliary pump as the bushes were worn down and not working (now working)
I have put a hose in the expansion tank and let it run for 30 mins
I have installed a new thermostat

There is a noise that sounds like the water pump scraping metal on metal (could be belt noise but sounds suspect to me) after sanding down the hole and making sure it went in straight and flat.

Timing is perfect but no heating whatsoever!!!

Is it time for the heater matrix to be replaced?

I am seriously contemplating petrol bombing the thing but the other half loves the car, just I cannot for the life of me locate the problem!!

Also, I have tried to plug the car in to a top of the range, brand new Snap-on system and it says "ECU Blocked" with no error codes or anything that could possibly give me an insight as to why!

Any help would be most appreciated!

Many thanks for your time!

Offline Chrispb

  • Mindsaysyesbodysaysnono
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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2015, 04:05:01 AM »
Hello Charlie and  welcome5

These engines take a while to warm up unaided due to their efficiency this is why all diesel versions have a booster heater fitted to aid quicker warm up times.
Having said that if it's not working you should still get a degree of heat albeit taking a long time to get up to normal operating temperature, could take as long as ten miles but heat would gradually come through but bear in mind if you turn the blowers on full this will also cool the engine down.

So questions,
Does your car get up to normal operating temperature? and how long does it take to get there.
Have you checked the heater pipes to confirm they get hot
Has it ever lost coolant since owning the car, do you have to keep topping up?
Do you know if the booster heater works? it should start automatically when engine temp is below 75deg C and the ambient temp is below 10deg C
Look under the passenger side under the car the heater has a small exhaust attached and makes a jet roaring noise when running.

As for checking fault codes on the car most of us use VCDS lite or Vagcom all you need is an interface lead (under £10 on ebay) and using a laptop download the free software then you can check for faults.

There's a lot more info about VCDS diagnostics and the booster heater in our reference library.
Feel free to ask more questions.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline GalaxyCharlie

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2015, 08:42:33 AM »
Hi Chris,

Thanks for the reply and the welcome, such a shame my first post is one asking for help!

I have checked and the auxiliary heater is NOT working (I think it's the glow plug so I have purchased one ready to install).

The car gets up to around 70/80c and then cools down to 50c again, my partner took it for a 40 mile run the other day as complained about how cold the "bloody thing" was.

I can't feel any heat at the heater pipes
Lost coolant for the first time after her 40 mile run

I might add that the engine is starting to get louder (diesel-rattle) and it is concerning as I drive along with the sensation that it's about to go "pop"!

I am going to swap radiators with the other Galaxy I have for spares (I bought an 02 plate with a warped head and damaged injectors for spares) and the rad is fairly new from what I can see, maybe a blockage there but swapping it all the same as now our rad has sprung a leak.

I will download the software as I purchased the cable a while ago.

Thanks again.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 08:43:10 AM by GalaxyCharlie »

Offline Chrispb

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2015, 12:32:22 PM »
With the heater pipes cold and losing coolant me thinks you may have other underlying problems such as head gasket failure but let's not jump to conclusions yet.
A Few more questions
Can you check in the coolant bottle and see when engine is warming up with cap removed can you see coolant returning to the bottle through the small hose at the top, and after having a run does there seem excess pressure in the bottle?
can you slowly remove cap when engine is warm without coolant spilling over?
Does the coolant level remain constant or does it disappear or does it rise up  above the max mark.
There are no water valves in the heater matrix circuit so it's either a bad air lock or total blockage of the matrix, what about the rear compartment heater is there any warmth here, check heater pipes going to rear heater under car.
Changing the main radiator will not affect the flow through the heaters.
All this talk of blockages in radiators and matrix's is nearly always the result of boiling over which loosens any scale that would normally lie dormant in the engine galleries.
Has there been any evidence of rusty sludgy coolant before flushing out.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline GalaxyCharlie

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2015, 07:40:28 PM »
Hi Chris

It has cured itself, I left it running with the bottle cap open, then decided to spill the coolant everywhere by driving with the cap off for a quick 5 mile motorway spurt, after that filled up slowly with fresh antifreeze with the engine running and voila!! the heaters are working, poorly, but working again, even the rear heaters are pushing out warm air.

BUT, when you speed the heater fans up, it gets colder over a short period, drive with the heaters on half and you'll have pleasant heat consistently.

I have a feeling it was an air lock but I do still feel like the water pump I have installed felt, when I bought it, a bit tight and lacked free flow so I may just change the water pump again just to eliminate all possibilities of water pump failure.

All this has happened after I installed the refurbished auxiliary water pump so it says something me thinks, unless the auxiliary water pump is to help bleed, then my initial theory of air lock might be the correct one.


Offline Chrispb

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2015, 12:32:04 AM »
Can't help thinking your not out the wood yet, hope it's not HGF but we've had so many with similar symptoms.
Make sure that the coolant is returning to the bottle because if it's not the restrictor inside that small hose is probably blocked, it allows aerated coolant to the bottle.
See link below.

 https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/heater-blowing-cold-air-and-engine-overheating-underload-(all-models)/
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline GalaxyCharlie

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2015, 05:39:59 PM »
Hi Chris,

Thanks again for the time, I haven't been able to have a new look at her but the heaters, as I think I said, are working, the water is gushing back up to the expansion tank as it is pressurizing but I have a nasty feeling the water pump is at fault for some reason, the water isn't flowing under revs nor load, now I have fixed the auxiliary pump the water is flowing but when under load then the heaters go cold again.

It's not overheating as it takes a long long time for the temperature to come up to 55/60 degrees (15 to 20 miles) and it's got me thinking that it may be a dodgy thermostat so out with the stat again to make sure!!

The valve you speak of I have cleaned so ...

Confused  :-\

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2015, 10:04:25 AM »
Being that the PD engine is very thermally efficient and it's pretty cold out there at the moment, it's possible you could have underlying problems and the engine still wouldn't get hot enough to overheat! Being that it's a lot of work to remove the water pump again for inspection you could just drain the coolant and remove the thermostat, you should be able to view the water pump impeller well enough through the thermostat housing to determine if it's doing it's job or if it's loose on the shaft. Due to the resistance of the mechanical type seal used to seal the pump spindle, new water pumps do tend to have quite a bit of resistance when you turn them, don't forget the coolant itself will act as a lubricant. Of course it is possible to have a defective pump, I replaced one which leaked and had to be renewed again along with the timing belt!
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline Chrispb

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2015, 10:46:33 AM »
Further checks you can do.

1.Does the coolant level remain constant, or does the bottle tend to fill up after a run.

2.Does there seem excess pressure in the system, does the top radiator hose feel hard after a run

3.After carefully removing the cap when warm does coolant want to bubble over.

4.When the caps removed when cold is there still pressure present in the system
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline GalaxyCharlie

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2015, 02:05:18 PM »
Hi Chris

1 - No, the expansion tank almost empties
2 - Yes, no it doesn't.
3 - Yes it does
3 - A very little amount

Cheers

Offline Chrispb

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2015, 09:32:40 PM »
It's not looking good
My answers to your reply

1. Coolant being blown out through cap while driving
2. Almost certainly combustion gases being pumped into cooling system which leaves air pockets in the system
3. Reducing the pressure causes localised boiling which results in coolant and air being forced out through the filler.
4. Normally a cooling systems pressure will return to zero when cold, if you still have pressure present when cold then you have gases present.

Going by past experience you have 95% head gasket failure, which is possibly why you thought you had such a good deal.
Be sure to check head for warp once removed, a lot of heads require a skim after gasket failure :(
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline sasquartch

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2015, 09:32:46 AM »
I'd first get a local garage to do a sniff test on the coolant - this will determine whether the head gasket is gone. You can buy a kit for about 50 quid but will be cheaper just to let a garage do it - I'd doubt a back street garage would any more than a tenner.

If it does show combustion gases present then at least you know where you stand - ie time to have the head off.

Also I'd say it's normal to have a slight pressure in the system even when cold, if the system is sound it proves it can hold pressure, Only slight pressure though once cooled completely down.

Offline GalaxyCharlie

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2015, 11:00:24 AM »
Hi Sasquartch

We did a sniff test on Saturday when I was having some welding done and it came up negative for gasses, and we spent a good while on it to make sure, no exhaust gasses in the system, just a stupid amount of pressure build up that almost blows the cap off when I release it!!

It now boils down to whether or not the water pump is doing it's job!

Cheers again for the help!

Offline sasquartch

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2015, 11:37:31 AM »
Well if no gasses are detetected I'd say the HG is probably not the cause.

Without being a Galaxy expert (but having considerable experience with cars in general) I'd say my course of action would be to investigate circulation - that's either a blockage, faulty or incorrectly fitted part (eg water pump or thermostat) or anything that might stop the normal circulation of coolant.

From what I've read on the thread I'd say investigate the water pump and thermostat first - I'd be open to the idea that even if the water pump has been replaced you can't be sure it's correctly fitted or even the right part. If it's never been right since you owned it you can't rule out anything. If possible double check everything is assembled correctly - it's remotely possible something like a hose is connected wrongly. Unlikely I know but you really need to get back to absolute basics as you don't know the history.

Good luck - it's only mechanics at the end of the day and if the HG is OK there's only a limited number of things it can be - just keep an open mind.

Offline Chrispb

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2015, 12:22:53 PM »
While not wanting to put a downer on any findings sniff tests on these engines have many times been inconclusive as they have been done with the cars stationary but the problem only arises when driven hard and while I can appreciate members will want to try doing all the easy stuff first, constant airlocking and excess pressure only lead to the inevitable combustion gases being forced into the cooling system.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline i7555p

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2015, 12:52:45 PM »
A very interesting and informative thread, thank you all contributors.

Am I right in assuming that my Mk1 does not have an aux water pump?  I can't find one.

Do (engine) water pump impellers wear away?

Regards

Ian

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2015, 02:40:07 PM »
From what other people have said, the Mk1's that were fitted with booster heaters didn't have the auxiliary water pump fitted, but as Chris said the Mk1's had a lower power output booster fitted compared to the Mk2 model.

Regarding the primary water pump, the impellers don't wear really, not in the service life of the water pump, it's usually seal or bearing failure which causes them to go, or the impeller detaching from the shaft, for an impeller to suffer mechanical wear then it would have to be running in an abrasive fluid or contacting another part of the engine block- neither of which should occur in normal service!
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline steveo59

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Re: At the end of my teather - Heating issues
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2015, 08:13:17 PM »
Hi,
From personal experience, I know that the plastic type impeller can become loose on the metal shaft and is then not driven by the water pump so the coolant is then not pumped around the engine and heater matrixes. I have also read that plastic impellers can become brittle over time, caused by the heat, and can disintegrate, such as lose bits of impeller blade. Both these faults with the pump don't just causeno heating in the cabin but cause overheating of the engine. If it is neccessary to replace the water pump, always stipulate a metal impeller to gaurd against thes problems.

 

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