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Large MPVs -- Ford Galaxy / VW Sharan / SEAT Alhambra: => Ford Galaxy / VW Sharan / SEAT Alhambra => Topic started by: yeshu26 on February 21, 2017, 04:06:06 PM

Title: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 21, 2017, 04:06:06 PM
My Control module only reacts when the BATTERY IS DISCONNECTED FOR 30 MINUTES, AND YOU IMMEDIATELY SCAN IT FOR ERRORS. YOu cannot reset it otherwise using a VAGCOM. Various error codes attached.

Address 18: Aux. Heat Labels: 7M3-815-071.clb
Part No: 7M3 815 071 C
Component: HEIZG. B/D5W 0001
VCID: 30689CA1F0A879C152-5178

5 Faults Found:
01492 - Function Lock-Out
06-00 - Signal too High
65535 - Internal Control Module Memory Error
00-00 - -
65535 - Internal Control Module Memory Error
00-00 - -
65535 - Internal Control Module Memory Error
00-00 - -
65535 - Internal Control Module Memory Error
00-00 - -



# One interesting thing about my VCDS. It only reads aux heater fault in auto-scan, but never on "Aux heater" individual scan option.

i.e. option 18 never works, even after disconnecting battery or fuse of the aux heater.But auto-scan works for aux heating fault

# According to the mechanic, there is voltage at the terminal but the heater does not come on. He says replace the whole unit. Certainly, as his uncle will pay £ 600 for a new unit! :)

Never the less it is coming off the car, so I can test it by a DMM. what errors am I looking for electrically?
If it does not come alive, then does it mean it is due to the glowplug? Why we could not hear the motor turning?

i.e. how am I trouble shooting the heater when it is removed from the car?

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: johnnyroper on February 21, 2017, 04:47:02 PM
What's the condition of wires going to unit? They can corrode and break by the plug.

With it off the car you can put feed to glow plug and see if it heats up,can also put feed to combustion fan to see if it runs.

Looking at the faults I would say control unit is knackered though as when glow or combustion fan fail it locks out and gives appropriate codes for them. Looks like new heater is way to go in my opinion.
The reason you cannot hear the fan is because you have active faults which have locked the unit out.
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 21, 2017, 06:38:06 PM
Hi

1: I have checked and cleans cables from the heater side by going under the car. I would like to test them from the CAB side also. How do I achieve that?


2: How do I go about repairing the control module please?

Latest according to the vagcom address 18 does not exist anymore, i.e. looks aux heater aka add 18 is kaput! please see screenshot.
Control module finder DOES NOT report aux heater aka add 18 anymore.

Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: johnnyroper on February 21, 2017, 06:44:04 PM
Not likely repairable by user I don't think,be more of a case of replacing.

You can resistance check wiring from car loom back to engine ecu,fuses,earth point,dosing pump,ambient temp sensor and diagnostic socket but I don't think you will find an issue if the wiring and plug under car are in good condition.
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 21, 2017, 06:48:34 PM
1: I was hoping if some sort of basic thing like resistor or capacitor is blown inside. I would like to do a continuity test of the cable nevertheless. So how do I trace back the cable to the Cabin?

2: IS second hand worth buying from a breaker?

Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 21, 2017, 06:50:31 PM
PS: Cannot call address 46 and 35 via vagcom to resync my keys too!
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: insanitybeard on February 21, 2017, 06:55:00 PM
(On a '58 plate, it'll be a Mk2 Sharan that you have, not a Mk1) I'm not sure if the same model heater was still fitted to the later Mk2 Sharans but certainly 2005/6 build models had the troublesome D5Z-F model booster fitted, which are prone to ECU failure. The ECU sits on top of the heater unit itself, take a read here (https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy/d5z-f-booster-heater-ecu-depotting/#sthash.0yzSBkt5.dpbs) and here. (https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy/yes-really-malfunctioning-d5z-f-booster-heater/#sthash.eL930156.dpbs) Alternatively if you click on the 'Tags' (https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/tags/) tab at the top of the screen and then the 'd5z-f' tag (https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/tags/?tagid=163) in the 'popular tags' list you will find numerous threads relating to troublesome d5z-f booster heaters!
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 21, 2017, 07:13:58 PM
Sounds good Mr Beard,

How do I make the damn thing fully manual? i.e. run fan,pump, and glow plug directly with a switch?
Doable?

ta
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: johnnyroper on February 21, 2017, 07:23:32 PM
From the original vcds picture I thought I saw d5w?

I suppose there has got to be a way of having manual control if you are handy with electronics.

Pop off the Sill panel by nearside rear door wiring comes in there it is then a case of tracing colour codes unless you have wiring diagrams?
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 21, 2017, 07:31:34 PM
D5Z- F is correct, I saw it myself this morning.

vagcom error or bug may be?

Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: insanitybeard on February 21, 2017, 07:39:05 PM
Do you mean full manual control instead of simply putting a manual switch in place of the wiper linkage temp sender?

The unit part number quoted at the start of the thread (7M3 815 071) is the same as my old and new D5Z-F (https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy/yes-really-malfunctioning-d5z-f-booster-heater/msg16676/#msg16676) heaters, albeit with slightly different revision suffix letters at the end.
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 21, 2017, 11:01:47 PM
insanitybeard.
At this moment the d@mn thing simply does not up in the VAGCOM. The module does not exist as per the scan.

See below.. After address 17, it skips ahead. Every single time..


Address 15: Airbags
   Protocol: KW1281
   Part No: 1C0 909 605 F
   Component: 2G AIRBAG VW61 0Q0M 0004
   Coding: 12871
   Shop #: WSC 00020

Address 17: Instruments
   Protocol: KW1281
   Part No: 7M3 920 920 L
   Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT VDO V68
   Coding: 13411
   Shop #: WSC 00791

Address 19: CAN Gateway
   Protocol: KW1281
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: Chrispb on February 22, 2017, 04:43:07 AM
check the large red cable on the heater multi plug they can corrode and break off.
No response from controller usually means no power supply.
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: insanitybeard on February 22, 2017, 09:08:09 AM
There are I believe some wiring schematics for the D5Z-F ECU in this (https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy/auxillary-heater-yet-again/msg15424/#msg15424) post along with some other good information in the same thread.

However as has been said you need to check to make sure the unit is getting power first off, on earlier vehicles fuse 12 (https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/ford-galaxy-mk2-fuse-information-circuit-and-rating/msg6026/#msg6026) was responsible for supplying power to the unit but if as you said in the other thread your fuse/ relay box has a substantially different layout to the picture here (https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy/auxillery-heater-outside-sensor/msg22414/#msg22414) then that may not be correct for your vehicle.
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 22, 2017, 11:50:24 AM
Thanks Guys.

1: Looking for a wiring diagram and the location of the wiring harness inside the cabin to check the end-to-end connectivity of the cable from the heater.

2: Last time I check the cable at the heater end, I had + 12 volts in at-least 3 pins.

3: Possible to use old style D5w heater? sh1* loads on sale as second hand.

Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: Chrispb on February 22, 2017, 12:55:50 PM
Recheck condition of the multiplug especially the thick red wire.

It is possible to use a D5WZ heater but you will need the carrier bracket as the D5Z-F is different also the multiplug is slightly different shape.

The D5WZ is fitted to many vehicles but you need one with a VW control module, what you need to make sure when acquiring another heater is the export number is (Ausführ. Nr 25-2163) if it's not it will not communicate with VCDS

[attachimg=1]



 
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 22, 2017, 01:56:38 PM
Thanks,

Looking for diagram and instructions to check the cable from the heater to the cabin please?
Also want to test various fuses and relays related to my car.

Kindly help

thanks
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 22, 2017, 09:11:22 PM
Relays in my car look totally alien to what I have seen here or elsewhere....
Which one is the Aux heater relay, and can it be activated manually?

Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: Chrispb on February 22, 2017, 09:55:59 PM
As far as I'm aware there's no relay for the standard booster heater.
Independent heating has a relay when fitted as standard, not normally fitted in the UK
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 22, 2017, 10:35:21 PM
Thanks Chris,


The point of posting picture was to showcase that my electrical look totally different than what I see on the web or forums.

I am just trying to test all the electrical circuits, and in this case the bl@sted cable to the aux heater.

Cheers
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: johnnyroper on February 23, 2017, 07:20:10 AM
I think you are looking a little too deep in to the boost heater fault,all you need to really check is for live at big red wire,earth at the brown wire. Then you have the input from ambient temp switch,and the control signal from engine ecu. You can bell those cables back to engine ecu and the ambient temp switch,the other wires in boost heat plug will be for the dosing pump which you could bell out aswell. I don't think there is any need to start accessing the relays.
Personally as it is the known weak heater if wiring at plug ok it is going to be a fried control unit.
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: insanitybeard on February 23, 2017, 09:03:45 AM
As a side note regarding fuseboxes and relay layout, your fusebox does not look that different to mine, there are a couple of obvious differences such as a couple of different relays with different numbers and in different positions, but this is quite often down to differences in vehicle features and specifications, different engine power outputs and layouts etc.

YOUR FUSEBOX:

[attachimg=1]


MY FUSEBOX:

[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 23, 2017, 10:55:54 AM
Thanks,

Looks better.
Please advice on how to full check my Aux heater cable from under the car all the way to the CABIN ?
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: johnnyroper on February 23, 2017, 12:59:27 PM
As I already said check for live on big red wire,earth on brown wire and then trace colours of wiring back to ambient switch,engine ecu and dosing pump and continuity check.
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 23, 2017, 01:09:11 PM
Thanks Johhny,

1: Where is the ambient sensor? I found near the AC radiator on the n/s (passenger side) of UK version

2: Where is the aux cable inside THE CABIN, so I can check the continuity test?

best

Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: johnnyroper on February 23, 2017, 01:15:52 PM
Ambient switch is a small brass thing clipped to the wiper linkage on nearside.

Where the wiring comes in it just joins the main loom underneath the nearside rear sill plastic trim,you don't need to access it there just make an note of the wiring colours and trace the same wiring colour at ambient switch,ecu and dosing pump.
I honestly don't see it worthwhile going to those lengths mind,the outcome will be knackered control box so long as wiring is good condition at the boost heat plug and non of them are corroded and broken.
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 23, 2017, 05:23:52 PM
Ok here is my reason for checking the cable.

1: The car is ex taxi. 200k+, and I recently changed door loom cable because it was making all electronics go mad in the car. Spooky windows, spoopy door locks... ALL RESOLVED AFTER CHANGING the horrible overused door loom cable.

2: Therefore before I spent £ 400 in investing the heater, I just want to make sure that the very basic cable is fine.

That is why I am doing little bonkers in testing the cable before.

Electronics wise, this car is really brought me down to tears in past.... door loom cable, window regulators, door lock solenoids.... every single time freaking electronics.  :'( :'(

"Ambient switch is a small brass thing clipped to the wiper linkage on nearside.

Where the wiring comes in it just joins the main loom underneath the nearside rear sill plastic trim,you don't need to access it there just make an note of the wiring colours and trace the same wiring colour at ambient switch,ecu and dosing pump. - See more at: https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy/aux-heater-i-give-up-the-hope-to-live-now/25/#sthash.pRQTHRGU.dpuf"
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 24, 2017, 08:09:47 AM
Ok taking off aux heater today with help of a pal.
I take it I just need to block the diesel line? how about the water coolant line?


2: Is the temperature sensor near a/c radiator on the n/s different from the one in wiper linkage? Or there are two sensors in this car?

thanks
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: johnnyroper on February 24, 2017, 09:23:17 AM
Blank fuel pipe with a screw,coolant pipes need to be linked together with 22mm copper pipe and some clips.


There is the ambient sensor at front of car which gives the temp reading on instrument panel and climate control.
Then there is the ambient switch which closes below 10 degrees purely to give boost heater signal it's cold enough to run if engine coolant temp is low.
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: insanitybeard on February 24, 2017, 10:17:05 AM
You can also bypass the booster heater pipework with a straight piece of rubber hose which is what I did here (https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy/d5z-f-booster-heater-ecu-depotting/msg10762/#msg10762).

Johnnyroper has already answered your question r.e the temp sensors but I also answered it here (https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy/auxillery-heater-outside-sensor/msg22840/#msg22840), perhaps going forward you could keep all posts relating to your issue in one thread to avoid confusion and duplicated answers, otherwise it will all get very messy?
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 24, 2017, 10:24:41 AM
Thanks Johny

"Then there is the ambient switch which closes below 10 degrees purely to give boost heater signal it's cold enough to run if engine coolant temp is low. - See more at: https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy/aux-heater-i-give-up-the-hope-to-live-now/new/?topicseen#new"

Do I need to remove anything to see it, or it should be visible to naked eye?

best
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 24, 2017, 10:55:28 AM
"Johnnyroper has already answered your question r.e the temp sensors but I also answered it here, perhaps going forward you could keep all posts relating to your issue in one thread to avoid confusion and duplicated answers, otherwise it will all get very messy? - See more at: https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy/aux-heater-i-give-up-the-hope-to-live-now/new/?topicseen#new"

Agreed. I will behave.  :)

thanks

Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: Chrispb on February 24, 2017, 10:59:09 AM
If you look at the post below in the third picture down the arrow is pointing at the sensor/switch
https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/galaxy-bulkhead-extension-(lower-scuttle)-removal/#sthash.JuP2BrwR.dpbs
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 24, 2017, 04:38:03 PM
Thank you all.

The sensor. It's resistance goes high or low when it is on?
Want to test it with DMM.

ta
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: Chrispb on February 24, 2017, 04:57:33 PM
Low no resistance when on (below 10degs) if you want to fool the car into thinking it's below 10degs just unplug the sensor/switch and link the too wires together.
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 24, 2017, 06:18:51 PM
In Scotland , might as well do that permanently.

cheers
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 25, 2017, 06:30:41 PM
Look what I did while reversing........

What shall I do now?

wiring test results, if i read the results correctly:

pins=

1= +VCC
2= gnd
3=
4= nothing
5= nothing
6= + VCC
7= + VCC, EVEN WHEN ENGINE IS OFF? I thought this point was sensing AC or ripple current?

I did not do any bell tests/continuity test to the cabin, as all tests above look positive.

I knew I was more than capable of repairing this electronically, but looks as If I have broken the main body of the heater!

 :-[ :( :( :( :( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: insanitybeard on February 25, 2017, 07:17:46 PM
Yes, it looks like you've broken the air inlet pipe stub off of the casting. You'd need somebody able to weld alloy in order to repair that but it's probably more hassle than it's worth to be honest. My old heater
 (https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy/yes-really-malfunctioning-d5z-f-booster-heater/msg16676/#msg16676) is for sale but has a few sheared screws which would need drilling out so it probably isn't much use to you.
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 25, 2017, 09:19:29 PM
what does inlet air thingy do?
can the heater work without it?
how much you expecting for your old heater with shipping?
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 25, 2017, 09:36:42 PM
I measured the following voltages from the connector which is coming from the the cabin/inside the car-body.

pin 1: + VCC
2: GND
3: NO CONductor or metal inside
4: none expected
5: + vcc. THIS IS BIZZARE, vag diagnosis pin giving +vcc?
6: no conductor or metal
7: + vcc EVEN in battery mode, i thought it needs AC or ripple DC current.
8: no conductor or metal
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 26, 2017, 12:34:15 PM
This tape:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20mm-x-33m-High-Temperature-Kapton-Polyimide-Tape-BGA-UK-NEW-/190965426377?hash=item2c766d28c9:g:qdUAAOSwHjNV99aM

And this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Granville-Exhaust-Repair-Putty-Paste-Asbestos-Free-Quality-Brand-250g-0431-/131740897634?hash=item1eac5e9162:g:U2sAAOSwmmxW1jcK

Can be used to fix what I broke? Are we dealing with "high-pressure" of air here, so this might do the job?

Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: Chrispb on February 26, 2017, 01:12:54 PM
As it's the air intake it only draws in fresh air so no pressure, it's doubtful this heater will be cost effective to repair so it wont be a problem.
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on February 26, 2017, 02:02:26 PM
Did you guys see strange voltages on pins above? ^^
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on March 03, 2017, 10:02:50 PM
Heater is Off.

Control unit is off, and these are the readings from the heater components.


1: Burnermotor                               : 7.2 ohms
2: Glowplug                                   : 0.7 ohms
3: Control overheating sensor:            11 Kilo-ohms
4: Flame sensor                                : 1082 Ohms
5: Surface sensor                               : 10.5 Kilo-ohms

What do you think folks?

HS
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: yeshu26 on March 11, 2017, 07:03:48 PM
Ok, have tried to fix the heater CPU.
Want to test all components like fan, glow plug individually. Any ideas with the voltages?
Title: Re: Aux Heater: I give up the hope to live now.....
Post by: johnnyroper on March 11, 2017, 10:32:42 PM
Think 8 volts should say on the glow plug and fan motor etc what voltage runs at