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Author Topic: Braking goes hard when pedal is pressed a couple of times in quick secession.  (Read 7929 times)

Offline Bushy

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  • Posts: 25
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk1
  • Spec: 99 tdi 110 zetec
  • First Name: Bushy
  • Region: South West
Hi all apologies if this comes out a bit strange I'm totally new to this site and if this has been already answered sorry so here goes..?
We have the mk1 1999 1.9tdi 110 zetec. 106,000 showing. Now a couple of months ago I noticed when braking when you press the brake pedal coming up to a junction lets say the first time you brake the brakes are there for you. But when you come off the brake and go back on for a second hit a second or two later the brake pedal starts to feel hard and for a third time the pedal is rock hard and the flint stones spring to mind and slowing down or stopping seems impossible...!!??

Now we've seemed to of got use to this procedure and only brake when we need to (last minute) or once brake pedal is applied keep the foot on the brake. Now I've just recently replaced front pads and bleed out through the bleeders when compressing the pistons back in so no air..? Now fluid is quiet dark so I feel a fluid change wouldn't go a miss :o

I've been cruising the net and found some other people experiencing the same problems but with no real resolution?? I'm sure I've read somewhere some guy replace his brake fluid four times as told by a garage he had air in abs and system but still no change for him. I've checked vacuum hoses to every which part they go to in condition and connections. I will in time replace them all with coloured silcone ones, oh any know what size there are?? :P I've heard of vacuum pump vacuum reservoir etc and checked double checked hoses.

Anyone had/or having the same trouble? Anyone had a resolution to theirs if so, I've no code reader but thinking of getting one as see there's a couple of solenoids? In bulkhead which vac hoses go to. Mrs wants it sorted now as texted me after getting to work in traffic stop start stop start flint stones again..!! Sorry to go on a bit here for my 1st posting so Please be gentle with me. :P ;D :-*

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
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  • Posts: 2427
  • Thanked: 71
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: '54 130ps TDI Ghia
  • First Name: Paul
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
It sounds more like a loss of servo assistance than an actual braking fault to me, is it possible the vacuum pump isn't performing as well as it should be?
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline Chrispb

  • Mindsaysyesbodysaysnono
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  • Posts: 3000
  • Thanked: 100
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2 Auto
  • Spec: 52reg TDI 115 Ghia
  • First Name: Chris
  • Region: South East
  • Country: United Kingdom
Hi Bushy  welcome5

What your describing is loss of vacuum to the servo nearly always this is a split in the connections on the ends of the hard plastic tube, am not that familiar with the MK1 pipework, hose hose may appear OK on the outside but may have collapsed on the inside.

The vacuum pump down the front of the engine I'm sure has a small length of hose there.

Remove the hose at the servo and with engine running put your thumb over the end, you should feel the strong suction there, do the same at the vacuum pump to compare.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline Bushy

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  • Posts: 25
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk1
  • Spec: 99 tdi 110 zetec
  • First Name: Bushy
  • Region: South West
Oh wow thanks for quick response guys. I did try pulling the connector off the vacuum pump on Saturday but seemed pretty solid to me but it did turn like it was a click on fitting? I did read somewhere that a guy took his to a ford dealer and they said his pump was faulty (vacuum pump) so they replaced and told him all done..!!? He collected from them driving out of work shop pedal went hard again so back in he went and was told to leave it with them. He had a call saying they can't find a fault with it and said come and collect he did and same again happened hard braking so went back in and grab a technician took him out in it told him to do the same brake then come off then brake again he agreed this time and said brake pedal goes hard and braking hard to stop.

The story goes he was told to leave the car with them for another day and then again told everything working as it should and it must be your braking method told by technician. So he had it out with ford about replacing a part that didn't need replacing but was told that while doing tests the engineer broke the pipe off the old vacuum pump so had to be replaced with a new one. Hence me not sure about pulling pipe off pump. Story goes he was refunded all his money back and they would wear cost of new pump.

Now in my travels around web I did find somewhere someone had found his problem to be a sensor somewhere and I can't for the life of me think what it was or where as skipping through :'( hence asking you guys could it be one of those under the bulk head with vac hoses going to them? Or is there a sensor somewhere else I can't see. I've heard stories of no fault codes showing if intermittent fault.

Ps the story above the technician guy did say that the vacuum reservoir you must of exhausted it of all it's pressure when braking on and off in quick succession to which he replied bull...! :o
Am I being and old lady here? Had the car nearly a year my mrs never use to notice it but when I told her she tried it and sure enough hard braking. Is the technician right is it just a braking method here? May be if someone has the same model or similar they could try the on and off braking a couple of times in quick succession. Hope I don't start something here people flooding in with hard brakes when they try it.

Thanks again neil. ;)

Offline Chrispb

  • Mindsaysyesbodysaysnono
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  • Posts: 3000
  • Thanked: 100
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2 Auto
  • Spec: 52reg TDI 115 Ghia
  • First Name: Chris
  • Region: South East
  • Country: United Kingdom
You should only be able to exhaust all the vacuum with the engine off this is checked now when you have your MOT, the vacuum pump should easily recover the lost vacuum, I've never had to change a pump thats failed because of that problem on any car, sometimes the belt driven pumps can leak oil through worn seals but still produce the vacuum.
And don't forget there is a small vac pipe tee'd on which supplies the heater recirculation switch, are there any hissing noises from behind heater controls.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
  • *
  • Posts: 2427
  • Thanked: 71
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: '54 130ps TDI Ghia
  • First Name: Paul
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
As another thought, could the one way valve on the rigid pipe from the vacuum pump> servo be at fault? If it wasn't returning properly it could explain the why the servo vacuum was slow to build up after brake application.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline Chrispb

  • Mindsaysyesbodysaysnono
  • *
  • Posts: 3000
  • Thanked: 100
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2 Auto
  • Spec: 52reg TDI 115 Ghia
  • First Name: Chris
  • Region: South East
  • Country: United Kingdom
As another thought, could the one way valve on the rigid pipe from the vacuum pump> servo be at fault? If it wasn't returning properly it could explain the why the servo vacuum was slow to build up after brake application.
Yep that is possible, that's why I suggested checking vacuum at the pump and at the servo, any thing restricting the flow be it collapsed/perished hoses or as you say faulty one way valve will slow down the flow.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline Bushy

  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk1
  • Spec: 99 tdi 110 zetec
  • First Name: Bushy
  • Region: South West
Hi again. Yes I did read somewhere about non return valve sticking so that could be my problem as I/we did notice hard braking never used to be all the time but seemed more pronounced when I did the pad change on Friday. But I did replace both aux belts at same time as had power steering judder on full lock as used to go heavy on cnr's more so in wet so replaced alternator clutch pulley as recommend  but no change. So replaced belts and found power steering belt sloppy and warn new and retensioned steering back to normal.

Now getting back to heater controls I did remove them once to replace the bulb a while back but no one seems to do them? Would that of pulled a vacuum hose off from behind the heater control panel then cos I did notice a vac pipe going through bulk head in that direction. Would I be right in saying a vac pipe goes to ecu as well somewhere reading once.

Offline Chrispb

  • Mindsaysyesbodysaysnono
  • *
  • Posts: 3000
  • Thanked: 100
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2 Auto
  • Spec: 52reg TDI 115 Ghia
  • First Name: Chris
  • Region: South East
  • Country: United Kingdom

Now getting back to heater controls I did remove them once to replace the bulb a while back but no one seems to do them? Would that of pulled a vacuum hose off from behind the heater control panel then cos I did notice a vac pipe going through bulk head in that direction. Would I be right in saying a vac pipe goes to ecu as well somewhere reading once.

VW part number for heater illumination bulb 7M0919040C

Yes one pipe goes to the engine ECU from the boost pipe, the other from the vacuum supply to the heater control.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline Bushy

  • *
  • Posts: 25
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk1
  • Spec: 99 tdi 110 zetec
  • First Name: Bushy
  • Region: South West
Ok thank you I will have a look later on vacuum hoses and trace them through. I had no luck in finding a bulb with holder on-line with code so assuming its a ford dealer or vw? Have heard £14 from dealer was thinking of re using another capless bulb in holder as pulled the bulb out thinking be a push in job I gather it's one item and sold as holder and bulb, thinking 2.3 watt capless as vw golf show there's as a 2.3 watt for heater control panel and put the wires out the back of bulb to go into old holder as same went on daughters vw polo 1.2 watt didn't seem bright enough.

Thank you all again for your help on this here if I resolve this braking issue I will let you know the out come soon hopefully.

Kind regards neil.

Offline Bushy

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  • Posts: 25
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk1
  • Spec: 99 tdi 110 zetec
  • First Name: Bushy
  • Region: South West
Hi all just to recap on the hard brake pedal. Taking the advice in checking vacuum hoses on all pipes which I did and did again, the other evening when wife got home I rechecked all the vacuum hoses again for splits etc etc I tried to find the non return valve from servo to vacuum pump and found it.! :o Its right under the fuel filter and just behind it, a real pig to get to, but previously checked the two small hoses that came off it as I thought just a junction fitting for small vacuum hoses, checked them for splits by pulling them off and popping them back on again but not able to get right in there, so this time removed air intake hose off next to the fuel filter and bingo full access to non return valve and this time was able to check hard plastic hose connections and sure enough hard plastic hose had split right up past the connection point on the valve, servo side. Good old duck tape for now and braking restored to normal again. New hose needed thankfully no expensive parts this time as thinking new servo, vacuum pump. Just a dam plastic hose.8-)

Offline Chrispb

  • Mindsaysyesbodysaysnono
  • *
  • Posts: 3000
  • Thanked: 100
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2 Auto
  • Spec: 52reg TDI 115 Ghia
  • First Name: Chris
  • Region: South East
  • Country: United Kingdom
Ah ha split pipe then [GJ]
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

 

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