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Large MPVs -- Ford Galaxy / VW Sharan / SEAT Alhambra: => Ford Galaxy / VW Sharan / SEAT Alhambra => Topic started by: JR Watchet on January 02, 2021, 02:38:33 PM

Title: Can't start - won't start! Galaxy 2001 suddenly not powering immobiliser module
Post by: JR Watchet on January 02, 2021, 02:38:33 PM
Interesting issue on 2001 Galaxy petrol.   Have several Galaxys and diagnostic tools so used to fixing them but thois has me baffled.
Occassionally in the past failed to read the key (door led flashing fast) and cure was to remove key, wait 30 seconds for error to clear then worked fine.

This week, parked up to shop, came back and.....key in ignition (tried the two keys I have) and no start.  All electrics powered up (fans, lights radio etc etc)
but NO LED alight on door (checked locking and led flashes as should). All usual dash lights go out and no error messages.    Called UK RAC to do a diagnostics
as my kit at home and they could not read the immobiliser or other modules as they seemed not to be powered up.  Checked and tested (just in case) all the
fuses and links on the battery junction box as usual and any obvious fuses on fusebox.   Dropped off the steering wheel cover and all cables to ignition switch
are in good condition.  I know there is a start relay but powered from immobiliser module and if that has no power............................

Does anyone have a wiring diagram or more information.  My friendly main dealer can not pull anything off their system and the RAC say they have the drawings but can not pass them out as cover locking/immobiliser and are security issues.

I am electronic engineer used to fault finding and have the tools including VDS so any leads please as need to get this vehicle going.

For basic information the car is dry, well maintained, was gently (yes - by the missus) parked in supermarket car park with no issues.  20 minutes later and no go.

many thanks for any help - sorry long winded one
John
West Somerset

p.s. have pile of spares for the early Galaxys if anyone gets stuck
Title: Re: Can't start - won't start! Galaxy 2001 suddenly not powering immobiliser module
Post by: johnnyroper on January 02, 2021, 05:13:14 PM
Check relay 30 (k108 in ford language). See attachments of drawings I found elsewhere on this site. 1 is relay 30 the other is for immobiliser.

Have a read of this old thread.

https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-vw-sharan-seat-alhambra/relay-30-problem-with-a-twist!/


Title: Re: Can't start - won't start! Galaxy 2001 suddenly not powering immobiliser module
Post by: brianh on January 03, 2021, 12:49:09 AM
I've pulled relay 30 out of both of mine and resoldered them when it plays up. Definitely that as the diagnostics won't connect either. The last fuse on the bottom row can also cause it. usual issue is dry joints on the relay PC itself. On A mk2 it can cause the car to die whilst your driving as well.

Referred to as relay 30 as if it's the original relay you will find 30 printed onto it.
Title: Re: Can't start - won't start! Galaxy 2001 suddenly not powering immobiliser module
Post by: JR Watchet on January 03, 2021, 02:07:24 PM
Many thanks,

Will wait a few days until warmer (have 2 others to use - very useful vehicles as can get 2 fruit machines in the back for our business) and take out fusebox etc. to look and respond here with results as may be usefull...................now onto my Corsa D with a duff ECU.......never stops!
Thanks again'
John
Title: Re: Can't start - won't start! Galaxy 2001 suddenly not powering immobiliser module
Post by: johnnyroper on January 03, 2021, 04:09:26 PM
Good old Vauxhallís still killing ecuís, they were notorious for that when I worked at vauxhall up to 2000 thought they would have it sorted by now.

Tell me about it never stopping I am mid way through pulling engine from my car to do clutch/DMF and timing chain. Good job I have some time on my hands now.... covid 10 day isolation after my daughter tested positive just after I took her back to her moms in Birmingham on new year eve.
Title: Re: Can't start - won't start! Galaxy 2001 suddenly not powering immobiliser module
Post by: insanitybeard on January 04, 2021, 08:20:15 AM
Do you have workshop space to tackle that in? Not ideal to be doing that kind of job outdoors in the depths of winter! [NO] I tried to tackle the jobs I knew I needed to do before winter arrived but you can never account for the jobs that just present themselves to you, like the outer CV boot that I had to do the other day. Hate CV grease, horrible job ::)

Title: Re: Can't start - won't start! Galaxy 2001 suddenly not powering immobiliser module
Post by: johnnyroper on January 04, 2021, 08:44:41 AM
Not to fit the car in I can pull engine out and do the work in garage before fitting back in again. Hear you on cv boots that grease is disgusting stuff.
I was hoping to put the work off until spring but the vibration from DMF is getting worse so couldnít put it off,also the timing chains are a bit of a weak point so had to bite the bullet.
Title: Re: Can't start - won't start! Galaxy 2001 suddenly not powering immobiliser module
Post by: JR Watchet on January 07, 2021, 05:14:16 PM
A general extra from John, Watchet - I have removed the fusebox etc. but can not find the relay 30 mentioned here or a K number - does anyone please have a picture of
exactly which relay it is.   On the main rack there are three small relays marked "40" and one large one "404" which I have opened and checked the pcb in.   On the next layer down (which I still have to get to) seems to be just 3 relays.

I am still trying to get a fully detailed wiring diagram from my friendly Ford dealer but very little on their system and the RAC man wanted to get home, even though their technical dept did seem to have wiring drawings, they would not pass out!!!  Shame!

It is hard to exactly work out the precise sequence of powering the modules - a picture of the relay 30 might help me look and test it as we do plenty of electronic repairs ourselves.   Just so difficult to trace which wire goes where in that loom!
Title: Re: Can't start - won't start! Galaxy 2001 suddenly not powering immobiliser module
Post by: johnnyroper on January 07, 2021, 05:29:23 PM
I never owned a petrol variant so have no actual experience of relay 30 and where itís located, found this online which might help you.

https://www.askthemechanic.co.uk/makes/ford-galaxy-problems

Failing that sure @brianh will be able to assist
Title: Re: Can't start - won't start! Galaxy 2001 suddenly not powering immobiliser module
Post by: brianh on January 07, 2021, 06:15:56 PM
Have a look at K108 on the attached. Sounds like yours has been replaced already (not that the replacements available are any better for long term, they still seem to suffer the same issue).
Title: Re: Can't start - won't start! Galaxy 2001 suddenly not powering immobiliser module
Post by: JR Watchet on January 17, 2021, 04:59:13 PM
FIXED!

After an interesting few hours, pulled relay 30 and tested coil and energised on the bench so replaced and no go........Manually operated the contacts on the relay and "hey presto" all worked.    Ummmmmm.

Turned out the diode (1N4001 series) in series with the coil was open circuit - and of course I tested the coil, not the diode in series with it.....silly me.

So if your relay 30 does not work, not only do all the joints but meter the diode as well!!!



Title: Re: Can't start - won't start! Galaxy 2001 suddenly not powering immobiliser module
Post by: Chrispb on January 17, 2021, 10:51:03 PM
Haven't heard of relay 30 issues for ages, well done for sorting it and coming back with the explanation. [GJ]