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Author Topic: Clutch & gear change issues  (Read 14274 times)

Offline bigjeeze

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Clutch & gear change issues
« on: September 24, 2016, 08:52:51 PM »
My mate has problems with his 2004 Sharan. The clutch bites as soon as it's mof the floor. The clutch is fine the slave is fine and as far as we can tell so is the master. However, I read somewhere that there is a bush or sleeve or similar that is worn or missing on the clutch mechanism somewhere that causes this issue - it apparently costs 4 or 5 quid but I cant find the part. Anyone have any ideas?
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2016, 09:21:42 PM »
Being that it's a hydraulic clutch the only bushes that you can be referring to are either the pedal box bushes where the pedal pivots or where the pedal itself attaches to the master cylinder piston rod. But what exactly is the fault? That the clutch biting point is very low or very high?
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2016, 07:49:36 PM »
Hi

The biting point is very low.   The car does have a solid flywheel clutch fitted but this doesn't seem to be causing any obvious problems. The slave cylinder was replaced and this is working correctly as far as we can tell.  Gear changes become steadily more difficult as the car gets warmer. The gearbox oil looked OK no metal etc. But it was changed. This made no appreciable difference.  When the engine is not running the gears all select perfectly.  The gear change cables are in good order and are correctly adjusted. The selector mechanism shows no external damage or obvious faults, and as I said works fine with no load. As the clutch seems physically fine, is moving freely on the shaft, the flywheel is clean with no burning or scoring we keep coming back to the master cylinder or possibly the pedal.   As I said previously I read somewhere that there is a bush or similar somewhere on that mechanism that disintegrates and cusses this issue - but I can't remember where I saw it! I do remember that it said that a new bush/whatever is available but I can't identify it.

Any ideas?
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2016, 08:12:32 PM »
I found some more info  Firstly here is a post describing an issue - similar although not exactly what we have.
I have been suffering this annoying issue for the last 12 months. It's a problem, but it isn't if you see what I mean because it is so irregular.

12 months ago I did the clutch (twice but thats on a different post) Dual Mass, Carm unit & Clutch Master Cylinder.
Bleeding is an absolute nightmare on these and if you read the TIS procedure it's a nightmare for anyone!

The issue of the sticking pedal came about after doing all this and it is as a result of a tiny wafer thin metal cup that sits in the top of the clutch pedal and which the ball end of the return spring sits in.
This cup is there to stop the spring from wearing the pedal seeing as it is made of plastic!
In my case & I suspect many more, this little cup has worn to the degree of breaking in 2.



The solution :

What a super site this is, my gal started to have this problem last night, and yes it is the plastic that has worn out ...thanks for the info
Although this is a thread resurection,
 
Yes you can buy the little cap separately - I bought one last week from ford cost £6 lol
 
can you give me a link for the part thanks in advance
 
its part number 1107163 from ford although VW probably have a different PN. It's number 34 on this diagram>  http://eucatparts.co...mage=C002105906


I don't know if this will cure the issue we have but it looks like a cheap possible.
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Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2016, 08:46:59 PM »
It's worth a try for the sake of £6 and a bit of work.

But for me the biting point of clutch being low and problem gets worse as it gets hotter would suggest it is the clutch itself at fault. It sounds like there is not much clearance in the clutch if bite is low and as things heat up it does not fully disengage the gearbox.

Offline Jim Redmond

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2016, 01:30:35 PM »
wht-001-976, shim which goes into the back of the box, only did this myself last week, takes about 10 minutes, and made a hugh difference to my gearbox
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 01:31:12 PM by Jim Redmond »

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2016, 01:38:48 PM »
wht-001-976, shim which goes into the back of the box, only did this myself last week, takes about 10 minutes, and made a hugh difference to my gearbox

Where and how is this shim fitted? And why did you install/ replace it? Was it to reduce/ correct shaft end float?
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Offline mike wilson

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2016, 12:04:13 PM »
A gurgle of the part number brings up this page, amongst a number of pictorial representations.

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=394739

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2016, 12:49:28 PM »
Very interesting, in that case it'll be to reduce shaft end float- I've previously pondered if excessive end float has been a common cause of the demise of the 6 speed manual transmission fitted on the Galaxy/ Sharan etc through bearing failure caused by excessive thrust as can be seen here. I may have to give this a try on mine to see if it makes a difference to the especially notchy 1st-2nd change!
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Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2016, 06:09:28 PM »
That's an interesting read and by sounds of it could explain the clutch problem,especially if aftermarket clutch it would seem.
For sake of a tenner and 15 minutes work it has to be worth a try.

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2016, 12:54:53 PM »
Very interesting, in that case it'll be to reduce shaft end float- I've previously pondered if excessive end float has been a common cause of the demise of the 6 speed manual transmission fitted on the Galaxy/ Sharan etc through bearing failure caused by excessive thrust as can be seen here. I may have to give this a try on mine to see if it makes a difference to the especially notchy 1st-2nd change!
Surely excessive end float wasn't there when the box was new? packing out with shims to reduce end float may not be a long lasting repair as something like a bearing or thrust washer is wearing and causing the excess play
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2016, 01:27:45 PM »
I'm sure I've read a few tales of people complaining about difficult gear changes and less than perfect gearboxes even at low mileages on the 6 speed manual. Not that I'm saying fitting this shim would definitely solve this issue, but I'm curious if it would make any difference. That particular bearing in behind where this shim is supposed to be fitted seems to be one that is prone to failing as there have been a couple tales on this forum documenting it, I was thinking that once the gearbox internals start to wear a bit possibly that bearing starts to be subjected to more thrust load than originally intended increasing the rate of it's demise, and causing the kind of failure as in the thread I linked earlier.
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Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2016, 01:29:29 PM »
Having read a bit about it problem appears to be poor build quality where shafts/bearings go in to casing. There should have been some sort of washer but wasn't and over time the aluminium casing is getting cut in to.
Does seem a bit of a balls up something Peugeot had years ago with the BE box's they had poor machining which caused bearings to spin damaging casing. Repair was less sophisticated than a shim it was centre punch around casing and refit with some loctite,unless bearing was knackered that wasn't even renewed.


Offline Jim Redmond

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2016, 12:34:25 AM »
Sorry that I haven't replied to my earlier comment on this, the problem I was having was very similar to the original poster, clutch didn't really disengage(did just enough to change gears, but always dragged when sitting at lights etc.) Once car went into reverse, it would not come out of reverse without switching engine off, sometimes it would stick in first gear. I removed the rear cap on the gearbox and discovered that I had nearly 1mm endfloat, so went and ordered the part from my local Seat dealer. As said above took me about 10 minutes to install (didn't even have to remove passenger wheel to get at end cap). I've been delighted ever since, as I had just bought my Sharan cheaply because of his problem. Note shim thickness is 0.75mm

Here is a youtube link to a guy adding the shim:

« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 12:39:02 AM by Jim Redmond »

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2016, 12:37:39 PM »
Out of curiosity has fitting this shim made any difference to the smoothness of gearchanges, or just the clutch drag issue?
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2016, 03:02:56 PM »
After the initial issue hew has now changed the master cylinder, the spring and it made no real difference. He then obtained and replaced the shim and he says he has a 95% improvement. I think if he were able ( and interested enough) to check the actual end float and obtain the correct shims rather than the haphazard change-out he might cure it totally.


 
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Offline Jim Redmond

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2016, 11:02:25 PM »
Out of curiosity has fitting this shim made any difference to the smoothness of gear changes, or just the clutch drag issue?

Don't really know if gear change is much smoother, as I don't have my Sharan that long, and didn't drive it too much until I got rid of the clutch drag(definitely being able to get i out of reverse without stopping the engine is a bonus :P), also, I reckon that I need to adjust my gear linkages slightly, as I feel I have more throw on the gear stick going into 2nd,4th,6th,than I do going into 1st,3rd,5th. Might try and adjust linkages at the weekend. As before, sorry for my late reply

Offline Kristaps Baltais

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2016, 07:57:13 PM »
Holly shit!!! I would never had even an idea about that 1mm thick shim could make so much difference in gearbox.
It took me about 20 minutes to change it (because of -14c) and without even lifting a car or taking of wheel. I have my undertay off while im waiting other parts. Bearing moved quite a lot and after putting in shim it was stationary. So after fix there is no more whine in gearbox while engaging 5th gear or lifting foot from pedal. and gearshift goes like knife in a butter.
Summary: Costs nothing. Huge difference.
Buying this car after knowing all common problems feels bit sadistic, but then again, my main income is from growing potatoes in arctic.

Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2016, 06:42:14 AM »
Great news - if only this fix had been discovered sooner!

Well done Jim and others!! ;D
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Offline Mirez

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2016, 09:17:11 PM »
Well ordered the bits today, due in Thursday so I'll also be giving this a go. I dont have any noticeable whine on mine but the usual cold-crunch between 1 and 2. Ever hopefull to fix it i wlill chuck a tenner at it anyday.
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2016, 10:18:03 PM »
Same here Mark, no whine just a notchy 1st-2nd change and in my case an occasional reluctance to select 5th as well when shifting up from 4th (I've read a few tales of 5th being one of the gears which causes trouble so it could be an indicator as to the health of the gearbox). I'll await your findings with interest! Presumably there are a range of shims of different thicknesses available as well as the part number quoted in this thread- which I assume is the thickest available shim- to allow optimum shaft end float to be achieved, just out of interest does anybody know what that should be?
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Offline Jim Redmond

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2016, 10:53:08 PM »
Glad this worked for you @Kristaps Baltais, mines been out of action last few days, put a new thermostat in, then decided to have a go at removing and taking apart the auxiliary heater while I had the coolant drained.

Offline SilverBeast

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2016, 05:13:15 PM »
Well ordered the bits today, due in Thursday so I'll also be giving this a go. I dont have any noticeable whine on mine but the usual cold-crunch between 1 and 2. Ever hopefull to fix it i wlill chuck a tenner at it anyday.

Hi Mark.  Did you try fitting this? Did it make any difference?

Offline Mirez

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2016, 05:25:50 PM »
Not yet, I've had some back issues which has stopped me doing well, virtually everything tbh! I am planning it over the next few days though :)
03 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 115 Ghia in Spruce Green Metallic
With cream leather interior, Full Bodykit, Remapped at 145bhp, Lowered on 18's
14 VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI 177 AWD R-Line in Deep Black Pearl
With panoramic sunroof, bi-xenon headlights remapped at 205bhp.
08 Ford Transit 2.2 TDI 115 in Frozen White
With retrofitted everything except another slidey door! :)

VCDS HEX/CAN - Scans/Coding done in Wiltshire in exchange for winegums! :)

Offline bigdave982

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2016, 08:28:03 PM »
So ive got the crunchy 1st-2nd thing , read this shim bit with interest.
On the seat forum the guys seem to think its forabout 2004ish  vehicles on wards
Anyone know if the same age.constraints apply to gals? Mines a 2001 mk2

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2016, 11:13:17 PM »
I'm not 100% but the point that they made was that the mod is for the boxes that were fitted with the large black rubberised blanking plug on the end of the gearbox casing visible when looking through the wheelarch. Being that (to my knowledge) the Mk2 was fitted with the same basic 6 speed manual transmission throughout it's production I would think that the mod could apply to any Mk2 6 speed manual. Maybe with the Seats they didn't fit this type of box until part way through a particular model's production cycle?
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Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2016, 12:02:24 AM »
I don't think all the mark 2's have that particular box fitted as mine certainly does not have the black blanking plug on end of the gearbox. Last time I was under it I checked as I was going to pop it out to see if I had any end float.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2016, 12:35:27 AM »
Hm, looks like you're right, parts diagram for 2002 build date transmission doesn't show the end cover whereas for a 2004 build date it does (number 27). They must have modified the casing/ construction design, I think the basic box layout and design is the same though. Key point is, is you've got the rubberised black end cap, you can do the mod.
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Offline Mirez

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2016, 01:10:23 PM »
My understanding is that it depends on the gearbox code, if you have the ironically named FUX gearbox then you should have the endcap.

I had planned to do this today but somehow I have misplaced the bloody shim. I have the cap and the receipt both where I left them but the shim has gone AWOL! Annoying isn't the word!
03 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 115 Ghia in Spruce Green Metallic
With cream leather interior, Full Bodykit, Remapped at 145bhp, Lowered on 18's
14 VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI 177 AWD R-Line in Deep Black Pearl
With panoramic sunroof, bi-xenon headlights remapped at 205bhp.
08 Ford Transit 2.2 TDI 115 in Frozen White
With retrofitted everything except another slidey door! :)

VCDS HEX/CAN - Scans/Coding done in Wiltshire in exchange for winegums! :)

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Clutch & gear change issues
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2016, 03:15:26 PM »
Just a touch annoying that's the sort of thing that happens to me!

 

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