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Author Topic: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra  (Read 550 times)

Offline MrBen

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Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« on: February 23, 2020, 05:02:29 PM »
Hi all. The four 6mm hex bolts. I have manual bash hammer type impact driver, not a very good one, but doesn't seem to shift bolts. I'm worried one might round off, which will leave me in a heap of s?%$e...any tips appreciated.

Offline MrBen

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2020, 06:11:15 PM »
It's ok, have them off now.

Offline brianh

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2020, 07:39:17 PM »
Best tip i've got on that sort of job, is use a hex 6 point socket, not the 12 point ones. They fit the bolt heads better.

If you get really stuck, these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Irwin-394001-Fastener-Remover-Multi/dp/B00ID6E8OM/ can shift problematic bolts, but you want a replacement bolt when putting it back together.

Offline MrBen

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2020, 09:47:26 PM »
Ok thanks for the info. Much appreciated

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2020, 10:25:30 PM »
Best tip i've got on that sort of job, is use a hex 6 point socket, not the 12 point ones. They fit the bolt heads better.

If you get really stuck, these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Irwin-394001-Fastener-Remover-Multi/dp/B00ID6E8OM/ can shift problematic bolts, but you want a replacement bolt when putting it back together.

The crank pulley bolts on PD are Allen keys and can be a right arse to remove,I normally hammer the Allen key in and gun them off.

Offline MrBen

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2020, 10:54:40 PM »
Hi thanks for reply. Yes have Allen bolts out now. They were surprisingly loose once cracked off.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2020, 09:03:06 PM »
The quoted torque figure for those bolts is ridiculous. 10nm (no problem) plus 90 degree angle tighten. There was no way I could apply that amount of torque with a 6mm internal hex socket and I gave up trying the first time I renewed the cambelt. Infact, in the course of trying to apply that much torque I partially chewed the heads of the bolts making them much harder to shift the next time I did the cambelt ::) I ended up sacrificing my 8mm XZN socket and hammering that into the chewed heads, thankfully I was able to get enough torque this way to undo the bolts. When I refitted the pulley with new bolts, I just torqued them up to 25nm and used threadlock- if I need to remove them again it'll be much more straightforward! A manual impact driver should be perfect for this kind of job.

If anybody needs new bolts, the Ford part number is 1520530- if you've got the short bolts fitted to post 2003 models that is- earlier models use a different part number apparently with longer threads. Autodoc also list aftermarket bolts which have XZN heads which might not be a bad idea either.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 09:06:00 PM by insanitybeard »
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline MrBen

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2020, 11:27:19 PM »
Hi thanks for reply and info. All seems to be going well with the renewed cambelt and pulley bolts etc. An issue I noticed (wondering if you ever seen this before) was the tensioner pulley marker position. For a start, the new tensioner was different to the old one that came off...seemed a bit cheaper quality. The old tensioner was the 2 stage type with the little pin hole etc, where as the new one you just bolted on and tensioned marker to the correct position in one hit. All seemed ok though, until I actually started the engine and let it tick over for a bit, then switched off to check the tensioner marker position. The pointer had moved off the mark, about 30mm back. This seemed odd to me, as I turned the engine over twice first by hand, and the pointer stayed in the correct position. Have you seen this before? Thanks for your time. Cheers.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2020, 07:00:27 AM »
did You have the 3 13mm bolts slack on the cam sprocket when tensioning?

Offline MrBen

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2020, 10:26:29 AM »
Hello Johnny. Yes had them slackened. It was hard to get the new belt on over the water pump pulley, as those cheaper/different tensioners as previously mentioned give you less room, even with idler pulley off. Had to really pull belt to get it on. Anyhow, because the car started and ran fine, I didn't go through the whole process of locking up again and re tensioning. The marker hasn't moved any more from where I mentioned b4, but it still cheesed me off, as I took my time, and did everything as best i could. Was hoping someone else had seen this before, but then I imagine a lot of people put everything back together after turning engine twice, and as long as it starts and runs they don't check pointer position again...I have a feeling its the different style tensioners that is the issue. Thanks for reply.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2020, 10:55:56 AM »
Itís been a while since I did a PD but isnít the pump at front of belt run? If so it should have been one of the 1st to have belt slipped over as you work counter clockwise.

With a new belt I tend to slightly over tighten and turn over a few times then back tensioner off to the pointer and then torque the tensioner nut up. Not had one drop down on tension except for an old belt thatís slightly slacker at change time.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2020, 11:31:24 AM »
The water pump is on the front of the run (not on the tensioner side):

6853-0

When I've done the belt on mine, I've left the small lower idler pulley off until last to reduce the tension a tad, and once I know where the belt needs to be located on the camshaft sprocket have fitted the belt to said sprocket whilst the sprocket is loose on the tapered camshaft hub (3x 13mm bolts fully removed from the sprocket at this point to allow the sprocket to be removed from the hub and the belt lined up on the sprocket). When refitting the sprocket and belt to the hub, easing the camshaft sprocket onto the tapered hub whilst sliding the belt over the front ridge of the tensioner pulley seems to do the trick (possibly in combination with having the tensioner only partly installed on the stud until the camshaft sprocket is fitted). The idler can then be fitted prior to tensioning.

Without knowing what tensioner you've got installed, it's difficult to say. The ones supplied in the INA kit I used are made by Litens as below. The belt tension will alter slightly after tensioning as you rotate the crankshaft depending on the load on the camshaft at that point, but the marker dropping back by 30mm doesn't sound right. The only other reason I can think of is that the locating tab of the tensioner which engages in the cylinder head wasn't man enough for the job and has distorted allowing the tensioner marker to drop back (I had this happen once with an NSK tensioner supplied as part of a Dayco kit. It didn't stop the tensioner from working but meant that the tension indicator didn't work and for this reason alone I had to replace it).

6855-1
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 11:58:23 AM by insanitybeard »
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline MrBen

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2020, 03:54:38 PM »
Yes it was same tensioner as the one you have pictured. Yes iv heard b4 of doing it the way with taking the camshaft sprocket entirely off, which I would of eventually done if the belt wouldn't go on, but alas it did. I'm assuming that the belts life will be shortened if the tensioner isn't in the correct position, but like I said b4 it has stayed in the same place, albeit off. Best thing at mo I reckon check it regular to monitor any changes. Thanks chaps

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2020, 04:28:26 PM »
Does the belt tension actually feel ok? If the pointer has dropped back because the locating lug has twisted or become damaged then the belt tension may actually still be ok. If on the other hand the belt is now slack due to inadequate tension because something has moved or failed then you need to get it sorted pronto before something bad happens. The tensioner picture I posted previously shows where the pointer will be pointing relative to the window in a completely untensioned state, is this where your pointer is pointing now?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 04:33:41 PM by insanitybeard »
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline MrBen

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2020, 06:56:09 PM »
Hello yes it feels ok. I will have another look tomorrow and try to get a picture of pointer location. Cheers

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2020, 07:05:34 PM »
If it was me after double checking the location peg is correctly seated I would attempt to re tension and see if pointer comes up to the mark. If everything is located correctly I would think the tension dropping off is down to putting belt on clockwise vice counter clock wise

Offline MrBen

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2020, 10:14:40 PM »
Sorry for very late reply. As you can see from the picture (hopefully) the pointer had moved from the mark after I had started the engine. This was a while ago. I took top cover off and checked again yesterday, and marker is back in correct position. So, I'm hoping all is ok. Cheers for advice.

Offline MrBen

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Re:
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2020, 10:16:15 PM »
Here is recent picture.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2020, 10:49:03 AM »
At least everything looks to be ok, there will always be some degree of variation in belt tension (on all internal combustion engines but more so on the PD unit being that the camshaft is also operating the injectors and creating the high fuel pressures required) due to the fluctuation in belt loading from the opening of the valves and injectors and the resistance from the compression in the cylinders. Plus the crankshaft sprocket teeth driving the cambelt are deliberately not machined with uniform spacing on these engines to compensate for load variations throughout the crankshaft cycle.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline MrBen

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Re: Crank shaft pulley removal- Alhambra
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2020, 07:02:48 PM »
Ok beard, thanks 4 info! Thats put me at ease a bit. Cheers

 

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