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Author Topic: Engine stopping -again!  (Read 1420 times)

Offline bigjeeze

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Engine stopping -again!
« on: December 22, 2018, 02:22:19 PM »
Hi Guys - Season's greetings,

My Wife's Galaxy has started ? stopping again. I thought it must be the standard relay 109 so I bought a new one and fitted it but it hasn't fixed it. I changed the fuel and air filters but again no difference.  Basically it starts as normal almost instantly the key is turned it then moves away as expected until anywhere between 25m to 500m it will stop and it takes a hell of a lot of starting - it then runs and starts for a while until eventually it seems to run ok. then repeat.

Any suggestions as to what I should look at first?  I've done a little reading and the fuel pump filter could be an option - or possibly cam sensor - although it runs beautifully when it does run.

I did notice a buzzing sound under the bonnet - not near the relays etc that only stopped when the ignition is turned off but I have no idea where exactly it's coming from - it seems to emanate from the right of the engine bay as you face it.

Can anyone help please?


BJ
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Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2018, 03:25:49 PM »
Try putting some temp clear fuel hose on so you can see if fuel delivery to and from tandem pump is the fault.

Cam sensors typically cause issues on hot starting.

Have you got vcds to see if anything logged?

Offline brianh

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2018, 04:24:21 PM »
Hi Guys - Season's greetings,

My Wife's Galaxy has started ? stopping again. I thought it must be the standard relay 109 so I bought a new one and fitted it but it hasn't fixed it. I changed the fuel and air filters but again no difference.  Basically it starts as normal almost instantly the key is turned it then moves away as expected until anywhere between 25m to 500m it will stop and it takes a hell of a lot of starting - it then runs and starts for a while until eventually it seems to run ok. then repeat.

Any suggestions as to what I should look at first?  I've done a little reading and the fuel pump filter could be an option - or possibly cam sensor - although it runs beautifully when it does run.

I did notice a buzzing sound under the bonnet - not near the relays etc that only stopped when the ignition is turned off but I have no idea where exactly it's coming from - it seems to emanate from the right of the engine bay as you face it.

Can anyone help please?


BJ

The buzzing might be the run on pump located on the bulkhead behind the expansion bottle area.

Offline gregers

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2018, 09:04:20 PM »
idle control valve??????
vw t5 camper van.
reality is for people with no imagination
rip dad 21/12/10
rip mum 3/5/16
rip bruv 11/5/17
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Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2018, 10:36:12 PM »
idle control valve??????

There’s not one on a diesel lump

Offline brianh

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2018, 10:54:26 PM »
If the petrol model is anything to go by, the bottom righthand fuse in the fusebox supplies the engine ecu, if that isn't properly seated (being used as dashcam power source for example) that can cause the engine to die sporadically.

Its also possible its the contacts in the pins of the relay socket in the fusebox causing problems, if they don't make contact as well as they should do then they can cause the same sort of issues as a dodgy relay.

I'd also check the front fusebox (the one with the 5 high current fuses right at the front near the battery) just incase its started the usual meltdown problems, as that might account for the buzzing noise, If it continues after ignition switch off its more likely the run on pump, but you should be able to tell by unplugging it (a slight hum for it would be normal for a few minutes after stopping, usually if they fail its to stop doing anything at all).

And as suggested above, a scan with vcds for any errors not a bad place to look either.

Offline mirosti

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2018, 09:52:50 PM »
I had similar symptoms on mine Sharan mk2, and solved changing seals on injectors.
But in my case, engine starts and imediatelly stoped.

Offline brianh

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2018, 12:35:14 AM »
Also - when its not starting, whats the led on the drivers door doing? Rapid flashing would indicate an immobiliser (relay or similar) problem, slow would suggest something else is going on, so should allow you to narrow it down a bit.

Offline gregers

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2018, 08:57:52 PM »
    idle control valve??????


There’s not one on a diesel lump





every days a school day lol
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reality is for people with no imagination
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Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2018, 10:14:51 PM »
    idle control valve??????


There’s not one on a diesel lump

Very true that
diesels are controlled by how much fuel is injected in to engine,as opposed to a petrol that is controlled by the air intake quantity and ecu adjusting fuel to suit.





every days a school day lol


Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2019, 09:13:57 PM »


Hi Gents,

I am at a loss to understand what is happening with the Bosses galaxy. I have driven it on three journeys each of 250 plus miles with no issues. When the wife drives it- it seems to stop at least once a day.  I am thinking it must be a wiring fault - maybe in the doors. What I don't understand is that it can do long trips with no repetition yet short journeys it keeps failing.

Any other ideas gratefully received.

BJ
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Offline brianh

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2019, 09:42:29 PM »
I'd start with a vcds scan if it was me, a laptop and suitable cable can be had for less than the price of any parts at a guess. If that shows nothing the clear fuel hose test mentioned above would seem to be the most sensible place to carry onto.

Offline brianh

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2019, 10:02:21 PM »
Also - was the new relay 109 really new or one thats been sold as a good used item?

Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2019, 10:49:30 AM »
Thanks Brian,

Yes it was a new one not second hand.

I will give VCDS a go although I don't have the full version.
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Offline brianh

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2019, 07:13:09 PM »
The free version does most of what would be needed - only time I've needed the full version was to swap an instrument cluster in a MK4 Golf (as the immobilizer coding is stored in it, so if you swap it without doing anything it won't start!)

If its not logging any codes, and you can connect when its in its failed state, then it probably isn't relay related (generally I've found if the relay has failed you can't connect to the diagnostics either until it starts working again).

Your next step is to try the fuel hose bit described above.

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2019, 10:30:43 PM »
Hi BJ


I'm thinking fuel starvation? maybe in tank pump going a bit intermittent? connector on top of pump may be corroded or pump itself U/S.
There's a plate in the floor under carpet behind drivers seat, remove rear passenger seats and the plastics around the seat anchorage points to access.
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With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
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Offline mike wilson

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2019, 08:40:17 AM »
On another forum, someone had a similar issue.  Turned out to be the cardboard inner top from a fuel treatment bottle that had somehow got into the tank and was intermittently blocking the fuel pickup.

Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2019, 03:45:16 PM »
Sorry for the delayed response - and thank you to those who have made suggestions. I did a VCDS scan - Nothing untoward  - the only faults shown were one regarding the auto box temp sensor and the other was for the passenger door central locking motor.  The door lock probably backs up the suggestion of a cable fault.

I'll check out the fuel pump filter as that seems to be the next logical step.

Once again, thanks everyone.

Kind regards

BJ
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2019, 09:55:38 AM »
Right Gents,
I have removed the electric pump form the tank - Where exactly is the filter element of this? In addition I seem to have a fine coil spring about 100mm long uncompressed - Where does it go?  I haven't got any diagrams and I can't find any pics on the site except Mirez's which doesn't show a spring.  Any help would be gratefully received!  I need the car running!!


Cheers

BJ
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2019, 08:49:09 PM »
I have reinstalled the pump - Here is a picture of the spring I found but could not identify where it came from. Any ideas I would be most grateful.. It's about 100mm long and a very soft spring - quite thin coils.

Cheers

BJ
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Offline Chrispb

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2019, 09:43:37 PM »
Hi BJ
Did you take the unit apart? you need to do that to get to the filter.
There is a spring loaded flap valve in the base of the pot but don't recall the spring being that big.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2019, 09:57:50 PM »
Hi Chris,

Yes I did and yes there is a spring loaded flap valve - but no it's nowhere near that big! I wonder if this was put into the filler or something?  It was wrapped around the fuel pump when i took it out - I thought it was a thermostat or something like that.

The pump seems to be working just fine - It wasn't very dirty at all - and there was a small amount of crap in the filter - again unlikely to stop fuel getting through.

Oh well I'll wait and see what stops next or if someone recognises it!.

Many thanks

BJ
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Offline brianh

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2019, 11:40:05 PM »
It might not be supposed to be there - I found a similar one in the tank of a Discovery when we had it dropped off the car for some welding, never did find where it came from! Could imagine its possible its got into the tank from a fuel can or pump, but could it actually get into the pump at all?

Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2019, 06:26:40 AM »
Hi Brian,
No it couldn't get into the pump at any point but I suppose it could have caused some issues as it may have touched the fuel sender element which is exposed. Other than that I don't think so.

Cheers

BJ
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2019, 06:27:11 PM »
Hi Guys,

The problem I had thought had gone away - but it recurred again today - but when restarted it appears that every time the brake pedal was pressed it stopped and had to be re started. Once it finally got going - it was fine again.

Any ideas?   Change the brake light switch ?
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Offline brianh

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2019, 06:42:45 PM »
Cant see why the switch would effect it. If anything likely to be causing problems on that side of things the rear hatch wiring would be the first place to check, but wouldn't expect a problem there to cause engine to stop. I've known broken wires there to cause other faults elsewhere though.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2019, 07:06:59 PM »
Back feeding down an earth causing a relay to drop out with voltage both sides of the coil.

Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2019, 10:01:56 PM »
Thanks Gents - So where and what shouyld I be looking for? ???
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Offline brianh

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2019, 12:52:54 AM »
Broken wires on the tailgate, if nothing there check the doors, though given the brake lights seem involved think the tailgate more likely. Its worth ruling out at any rate as doesn't cost anything to look, and is a known problem area.

Offline brianh

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2019, 12:54:59 AM »
Right hand side rubber boot just to be clear on that. While your there, have a check of the rear lights for any odd behaviour as well, lights coming on when they shouldn't do  or not working.

Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2019, 08:54:13 PM »
Hi Guys,
Took a trip to my brothers in Suffolk 420 miles in 2 trips - not an issue at any point.  I have checked the tailgate wiring and can't see any breaks or feel any cables that could be broken.

Is it possible that there might be another foreign object in the tank that moves around and causes some sort of blockage? Is that likely?
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Offline brianh

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2019, 09:22:46 PM »
That is pretty much what was reported by the previous person that had that sort of issue - specifically it was the foil seal from the inside of a bottle of redex or the cardboard bit inside the cap - a small disc at any rate.

Best bet to me would seem to be put that clear fuel hose in place so you can see whats going on, and leave it there until you get the problem again, then get someone to try to start and see if it looks like fuel is coming up - then at least you know if its a fuel supply issue or something else.

Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2019, 05:35:36 PM »
Hi Brian,

Thanks for this - It's still happening though!. It feels like fuel starvation - it did it again to me today - leave it a couple of minutes and it starts and runs perfectly. I think the tank is going to have to be investigated.  I'll empty the fuel, remove the fuel pump and see what i can find.  I'll let you know what happens.

Regards

BJ
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2019, 08:27:41 PM »
Just another thought .... How does the car stop the engine? Is there a fuel stop solenoid or similar or is is just stopped via the fuel pump?  Any ideas?

BJ
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Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2019, 10:52:44 PM »
ECU kills fuel pump,injectors and spark.

Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Engine still stopping - Help!
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2020, 07:21:07 PM »
Hi Chaps,

Still no fix for my issue.  As of today I have replaced relay 109 3 times, Relay 53 twice. I have replaced the in tank fuel pump, The Cam Position sensor and fuel filter yet still the car stops when it feels like it - there is no fault on VCDS either stored or when having the laptop directly connected!   I have run out of ideas now.   

Battery is fine - spins the engine over for 2-3 minutes until it starts.  Any further suggestions  - apart from a box of matches!!  I am going to have to get rid of this car soon as I can't rely on it or trust it. My old MK2 (clutch is going and sorned) started first turn of the key today after standing for 8 weeks! Bugger bugger bugger!
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Offline brianh

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2020, 07:25:52 PM »
Will it actually connect to diagnostics when you have the failing to start issue? If it will, you should be able to rule out relay 109 (at least, when i've had the petrol version, relay 30, that won't speak to diagnostics in that state).

Crankshaft position sensor - have you tried swapping that across from the Sorn'ed one? (I see you mention the camshaft one already)

Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2020, 09:23:12 PM »


Hi Brian,

No that's seems like my last resort - I'll have a go at that over next week.

Thanks again.

Regards

BJ
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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2020, 10:32:51 PM »
The other suggestion made further back, was to put some clear fuel hose in the supply so you can see whats coming up (or not). Did you do that? If not, I'd consider doing so to give you a bit more to rule out (or not!)

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Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2020, 02:38:27 PM »
I've not been about much to chime in on this - apologies.

Is the brake light thing still true or was that a red herring? Something in the tank I think would show it self more frequently, since its just at the start of a journey I would be more inclined to think its part of the warm-up cycle.

Once its running normally (ie warm) I take it starting and stopping it then isn't an issue?

I would be looking at the EGR myself since this is most active during warmup and especially since there aren't any fault codes logged. I suspect its sticking in the open position, allowing exhaust gas in instead of clean air. As a simple test, pull the vaccumm pipe off and pop a screw in to blank it off. Seal both ends with a bit of tape and try that for a few days.
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08 Ford Transit 2.2 TDI 115 in Frozen White
With retrofitted everything except another slidey door! :)

VCDS HEX/CAN - Scans/Coding done in Wiltshire in exchange for winegums! :)

Offline bigjeeze

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  • Posts: 315
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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2 Auto
  • Spec: 03 Tdi Ghia Auto
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2020, 07:39:58 PM »
Hi Mark,

With respect to the EGR would that shutting off cause the re start to feel like the fuel was having to be dragged up to the engine?  When it stops - I have to spin it over with my foot flat on the floor for up to 2-3 minutes then it starts to fire and then after a while it runs normally.  It always starts straight away then usually it stops between 1000 yards and maybe 1/2 mile. It doesn't always do it - it can go for days before it does it again - and during those intervals it goes absolutely perfectly. It is completely responsive and can still get away from the lights like the manual one.  It feels like an engine that suddenly has no fuel and then after a while the pump fills up the float chamber ( i know it doesn't have one on these) and off it goes.

Any ideas?

BJ
On the Square

Offline brianh

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  • Posts: 701
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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 2001 2.3 Ghia LPG
  • First Name: Brian
  • Region: South East
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2020, 10:40:59 PM »
That does sound somewhat like what happened with the Espace I have (was my brothers car at the time). The clue of what was stopping it from starting became obvious when smoke was seen coming out of the air intake. Partly down to a clogged DPF, broken hoses on pressure sensors on it and a sticky EGR Valve. Tried replacing the EGR which got rid of the errors relating to the EGR itself, but kept getting issues upto the point of blanking the EGR and fixing the hoses on the DPF. Limp mode mostly though and errors coming up that would clear for a while if you stopped the car, but usually reappear whenever you tried to drive it around town.

Manifested itself as not wanting to start when they collected it from Luton airport carpark. Found after investigation later that the EGR was stuck fully open, and when we did get it to start with the EGR disconnected from the exhaust, clouds of white smoke came out of the pipe so no wonder it wouldn't run for more than a few seconds when started.

Offline Mirez

  • Pondering the next mod...
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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 03 115PS Ghia
  • First Name: Mark
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2020, 06:15:27 PM »
Hey Both,
Yes it tends to feel like fuel starvation because its essentially still starvation, just oxygen instead. With the EGR stuck open, the exhaust gasses are passed back into the intake which of course have far less oxygen then intake air. As a result its much harder to maintain (or start) an engine although typically this isn't an issue since the EGR only opens on overrun and higher RPM.

I mention it as its becoming a common issue, albeit typically on newer engines with stricter controls but at least you can rule it out with very little effort. :)
03 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 115 Ghia in Spruce Green Metallic
With cream leather interior, Full Bodykit, Remapped at 145bhp, Lowered on 18's
06 VW EOS 2.0 T-FSI 210 Sport in Deep Black Pearl
With red leather interior with full Caractere bodykit, Remapped at 255bhp and sitting on 19's
14 VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI 177 R-Line in Deep Black Pearl
With black leather interior, panoramic sunroof and bi-xenon headlights.
08 Ford Transit 2.2 TDI 115 in Frozen White
With retrofitted everything except another slidey door! :)

VCDS HEX/CAN - Scans/Coding done in Wiltshire in exchange for winegums! :)

Offline bigjeeze

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  • Posts: 315
  • Thanked: 2
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2 Auto
  • Spec: 03 Tdi Ghia Auto
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: Engine stopping -again!
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2020, 06:56:35 PM »
Thanks Gents,

Another thing to try! I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers

BJ
On the Square

 

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