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Author Topic: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket  (Read 12470 times)

Offline bestfc01

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Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« on: April 12, 2016, 02:46:31 PM »
Hi All,

Having some issues intermittent issues with my sensors. Its got to the stage I am not willing to spend any more time and money of the factory sensors.
All sensors tick, the PCM powers on a expected, however its picky if it want to detect objects. Sometime they work great but after a few minutes they fail or maybe 20 minutes.

So instead I am looking at some aftermarket sensors, that can be attached to my touch screen stereo to give me a HUD.
However, I don't want to just connect the sensors to the reversing lamp.

I've seen a wiring diagram on this forum, however the power on/off link doesn't appear to be clear for the 2.3 petrol 5 speed.

The aftermarket system has a single + / -
The control module does work, however it doesn't always want pick up objects. It turns on and off as it should.

All i want to do in affect is piggy back of the live, so that when i put the car in reverse / press the switch the parking sensors come on, likewise when i hit 10 MPH the sensors turn off.

I was thinking of piggy backing the negative of the parking switch on the dash however, because the PCM send out a flashing light the aftermarket sensors dont get a stable current.

I have narrowed this down to pins 6 for the positive and 8 for ground.

Is anyone able to confirm? Or have they done this before.


Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2016, 02:47:50 PM »
Forgot to mention, it a Ghia with front and rear sensors.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2016, 05:12:42 PM »
Just had quick look at mine the feed from reverse is in plug c77 pin 6 black and red wire
Earth c77 pin 8 brown wire.
Mines a ghia with front and rear also.

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2016, 05:24:22 PM »
Hi johnnyroper,

Thank you for coming back to me.

So if i understand this right, i would need to put the positive to C77 pin 6 and negative to C77 pin 8.
However, will this mean the parking sensors will only work when selecting the reverse gear?

What I am aiming for is for the parking sensors to perform the following

1) When I select reverse the front and rear parking sensors are activated.

2) I can press the parking sensor button when required (providing i'm moving less the 8 MPH)

3) If I excess 8 MPH (factory ones seem to switch of then) the parking sensors will also switch off.

This would be exactly how they function know, however using a aftermarket kit rather then the factory unit.

From what i can see i would need to loop C77 pin 6 and C77 pin 4 (Red Wire) to enable this.

Do you by any chance know what C77 pin 12 (Grey and White) is for. The wire diagram suggests its for the Data Link Connector. I have a gut feeling this is what is connected to the speed sensor (i could be wrong though)

Thanks in advanced

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2016, 06:28:58 PM »
Pin 12 I think is speed input from central junction box pin 7 is data link for diagnostics.

I don't think it will be possible to set up the way you want as the switch links an earth back in to control box to switch on and off manually.
Where as the reverse side is a positive input.

With yours have you had vcds connected on measuring blocks to see which sensor is not working when it faults? They give a distance reading to objects so should be able to accurately diagnose an issue.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2016, 06:32:57 PM »
The switch wouldn't be able to keep aftermarket controller on as it just switches when pressed and does not retain the circuit.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 06:43:26 PM by johnnyroper »

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2016, 08:18:47 AM »
Sorry for the delay,

So after testing the majority of the wire, I realize the switch doesn't retain the circuit as you said.

However, I popped the switch out and noticed I could take the parking sensor tab off. Meaning I could get switch such as the hazard lights and a new block, swap the tabs over, and re-wire the new block.

So I have worked out how to keep the parking sensors on, either via reverse or by pressing the new switch however its now the turning off  i can't seem to get my head around.

I though C77 pin 12 (Grey and White) would be the common factor, however i have a feeling the factory module can communicate with the speed sensor and understand the output signal from the speed sensor.

Any help on this would be most beneficial. The factory PCM has now finally given up the ghost and refuses to switch on. All fuses etc are fine, no wires have currently been altered.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2016, 09:42:19 AM »
Would the new controller not turn off by deselecting reverse or switching off on dash?
Like you said OE controller interprets the speed input where as aftermarket wouldn't.

Only way I could see you being able to set up is to use some sort of transducer linked to the speed input? But I can't imagine it will be cheap.

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2016, 10:00:19 AM »
Thats the feeling I had last night after driving around with circuit detectors etc on the passenger seat.  ;D

I had the sensors checked, and there was no issues with them. Replaced a couple recently.
Looms look in fine, there doesnt appear to be any issue with the circuit on either the live or earth.
Everything was pointing to the PCM.

I Was unable to read the speed sensor due to this being the 2.3, however i would assume if this was faulty my dash would be too.

In reference to the OE controller, if i purchased a brand new one, does this have to be programmed to the ECU or is it simply install the controller (of same model etc) and off I go. I was told this need to be programmed to the car.

I'm thinking now that having to turn the sensors on every time i go between reverse and forward is going to be a royal pain in the XXXX. Where as the OE controller stays on until you hit 8 MPH.

Now i have found this forum, maybe its worth getting a new controller and re-diagnosing

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2016, 12:03:04 PM »
If you get a second hand one off eBay then it will be plug and play,I was looking at them and seemed to be a fair few available. Not sure if brand new will need coding though?

Just make sure you match up the part numbers.
Have you had controller out to check for water ingress?

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2016, 12:09:07 PM »
Just checked and there are loads, so might be worth a bash.

I haven't no. It was working fine, until my stereo shorted blowing the stereo and cig lighter. (only have the car few weeks and previous owner allowed 2p to be put through the tape deck)

How would i check for water ingress?

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2016, 12:11:21 PM »
when i say working fine, i mean powering on and either working or producing fault beep

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2016, 12:12:59 PM »
Take the unit out from under passenger seat,it's a few plugs and 2 10mm nuts,if there has been water there it will have staining on it.
As it shorted I would suspect it has blown the box up. Once out thePCB can be removed from the black plastic box so you can look for signs of water or burnt out components.

I think it is worth a try changing the box

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2016, 12:16:47 PM »
I will get the box out during my lunch break

However I certainly think your right. Ebay job.

With Vagcom, do you know if i buy a cable from ebay with vagcom lite, will this allow access to measuring blocks?

I don't personally own the full version and its a good hour drive for my mate to hook it up.




Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2016, 12:25:39 PM »
From memory when I had lite it didn't do measuring blocks on park assist I had to register it

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2016, 12:35:40 PM »
Thanks.

I wonder how much it would cost, it quite annoying as i need Vagcom for the elec. then another tool for my engine.

I brought 2.3 thinking it was the VW engine. How wrong i was.

Then again didnt fancy the 2.8 V6 after I had it in the Golf 4Motion. Fuel eco was ridiculious

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2016, 12:47:52 PM »
Not to bad <70

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2016, 01:50:34 PM »
So i have pull the module out, and taken it apart.

There is a smell of burning near the input connector, however no damage can be seen.

That being said, it does look like water has got to this a dried out. There are white ingress marks where the input connectors are soldered in.

I think this is prob going to be a new module.

What what would be the next steps if the replacement module still fails to power on?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2016, 04:33:16 PM »
I would hazard a guess the module will power on,sounds like you have located the problem.
Before buying one you could always check inputs to control box with a multimeter,it's fairly simple just trace the live in and Earth to control unit if all good can only be the box knackered

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2016, 04:47:56 PM »
Hi johnnyroper,

Thank you for you help on this. It is extremely appreciated.

I can confirm i am still receiving + from pin 1 and 6. I am also still receiving - from pins 4,8 and 13
I can also confirm that i am receiving a close circuit on the + and - on C78 and C79
 

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2016, 12:59:44 AM »
So still waiting for the replacement module to arrive :'(


On a side not i thought i'd invest in the vag cable recomended in a post a while again.  Reading incase the replacement module wasnt soley the issue

I'll be dammed if i can get it to read any controllers. Just says it cant find them.

Tried win 7, win 8.1 and win 10 in both x64 and x86 flavors
Ive even tried the good old xp mode and change the prgram compatibilty

Tried 409.1 and vds lite latest from ross site

Dont suppose anyone has any ideas? It appear only xp you can change the latency.
If needs be i can install it as i have a licence key kicking aroud. That being said it ill have to find my madn vl loging.



Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2016, 01:02:30 AM »
Software if picking the cable up with no isses

This is 2.3 petrol so knew it wouldnt do engine but surly it wpuld do the climatronic

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2016, 06:36:44 AM »
Have you loaded the software for cable aswell as the vcds on to laptop?
Also have you chose the correct com port and tested it in the vcds options button on first screen?

You might also need to go to device manager on laptop and see what com port it is showing as,vcds only has 4 options so if it is anything other than 1-4 in device manager you will need to change there first before doing vcds.

Once set up just make sure you always use the same USB port or you will need to set it up again.

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2016, 08:10:04 AM »
Yep ive tried three different laptops as well ( i do servers for a living so have loads of pc crap lying around)

I have install the drivers for the cable. Windows sees the cable, typically comm 3 or 4.

I then install either the 409.1 software or the latest free version from ross site

Once software is installed i have gone into the setting and selected the relevant com number and selected test
Now this reports everything is fine
Latency is reported between 2.75 and 3.58

Plug it in the car and when scanning or selecting a controller on either software it state it cant find the controller

The only difference i can see at this stage is the latency.
Unfortunately 7, 8.1 or 10 does not allow you tp configure this.

Just wondered if anyone else face this issue.   
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 08:11:35 AM by bestfc01 »

Offline SilverBeast

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2016, 08:50:22 AM »
I've not used VAG-COM or VCDS Lite on anything above Windows XP so can't help you there.  I actually use it on a Windows 98 laptop as that has a secondary battery and will run for a few hours off the mains.

On the plus side VCDS-Lite will let you read back the distance each sensor is detecting. I used it to diagnose mine.  There have been quite a few threads where it has been the wiring in the bumpers that is the issue.  I know that the wiring on mine doesn't have a s much strain relief on the rear bumper as I would like, but that may be because it has had a tow bar fitted.

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2016, 09:02:33 AM »
I have a feelin the cable is a nock off

I found a classic xp system form about 10 years ago.
This still doesnt work.

That why i was hoping to use my netbook. As the screen is tiny its been sat gavering dust
It has a 9h battery life. But it will only work on win 7 or above.

Does anyone have a recommendation on the cable? I will most likely take then plung and buy the $99 software. However that doesnt come with a lead.

Wow 98 i remember using that. I though xp was bad  XD

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2016, 09:04:46 AM »
I hope its not a wiring issue as i might just ditch the factory sensor and instal rear aftermarkets.

Dont need front tbh


Offline SilverBeast

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2016, 09:27:00 AM »
If it's wiring it will be more than likely the harness in the bumper.  The front would be simple to replace when you remove the front bumper cover, which is a lot easier than I thought it would be after putting it off for ages, as the harness disconnects from body wiring anyway.  I'd suspect rear rather than front anyway as it's morw exposed to the elements.

Just looked on ebay and the rear harness has a plug in the cabin where the jack etc is stored.  Rear harness with sensors appears to be a round 25 on ebay.

Just a thought. Have you a towbar fitted?  Mines got an aftermarket, not factory fit, and the cover can interfere with the rear sensor if it's not on perfectly straight.

Getting VCDS working, or finding someone who has a working copy, will be your best bet as it makes it massively easier. 
Did you use the drivers supplied with the cable? Sometimes windows will install wrong drivers as it's a pretty useful generic USB to Serial chip in the lead used for other things too.
Have you an aftermarket radio fitted? Some of these interfere with the diagnostics bus as I believe the wiring to the factory units had some wiring "feature".
I believe there is also a fuse that if blown can stop the diagnostics working too.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2016, 09:32:47 AM »
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/171175298869

I just got one of these,installed software and tested it worked ok then registered with Ross tech. Works fine on Windows 7 laptop.

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2016, 09:38:19 AM »
Having spent many an hour messing with my PDC system I can confirm the wiring to rears is indeed plugged in quarter trim by near side rear light before going outside through a grommet.
I continuity checked from there down to each sensor plug,also from there to control unit.

Going by what has happened previously I would still say your control unit was blown,has new one arrived yet?

Mine turned out to be iffy sensors picking up electrical interference,turns out the "original vw" ones I purchased were in fact cheap Chinese crap.
As above get vcds working and it will point you in right direction.

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2016, 09:46:01 AM »
That the lead i have.

Mine came with different software amd drivers

Ill give that cone a try

No still waiting for it to arrive. I purchase two new sensor for the rear as they wernt ticking but it made no differents.

Deffo need to get this cable working

Would my aftermarket stereo be causing a comms issue?

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2016, 09:52:46 AM »
Once replacing the two non tickin sensor the started ticking.

Just wondering if the port on my car is worming correctly

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2016, 09:56:21 AM »
Only way to find out is unplug stereo and try it.

So you get ticking now which shows control unit is doing something but it still points to a failure with it as other elements of system are doing nothing.
Best thing is wait for new control unit and see if you can get vcds working.

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2016, 10:00:33 AM »
Yh i think that best

If after unplugging stereo i stull dont get comms ill buy the lead you brought.

What funny is if you try and do comms you can hear a noise behind the centre console. It like a wine when you turn a fuel pump on.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2016, 10:19:26 AM »
Very odd you get a noise behind console when plugging in and doing comms?

Does your interface say anything on it like VAG KKL?

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2016, 10:30:54 AM »
Yeh its vag kkl with s20 on the side

Just reinstall windows 7, all the drivers and software and still nothing woth the stereo unplugged and key to position 2

The cable is registered in the software but still no comms what so ever

I though the noise was strainge to. Although this time it didt happen.

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2016, 10:35:45 AM »
Very odd could be possible duff cable.

Have you deleted vcds and the driver then started from scratch?

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2016, 10:41:31 AM »
Thats my thought

Yeh completly fresh install started from scratched. Even ensure windows didnt download the drivers.

Ill order the lead shortly

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2016, 10:46:30 AM »
I had similar issues a few years back when had a passat ended up just buying a vag handheld scanner instead as I am not really computer literate. This time around it went on laptop fine I just needed to get interface driver as Windows did not do automatically. I can only assume last one was faulty,suppose they are only cheap so always a possibility of getting a duff one.

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2016, 08:53:14 AM »
I'm going to order a new cable at the end of month as its payday  :D

On the plus side the PDC module should be here some point today.

Ill get this install once it come and will let you know how i get on.

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2016, 03:16:27 PM »
Replacement module has just turned up.

Re-installed the module, however it is making a alarm style noise.
Bouncing from the front speaker to the rear.

The light is solid, however there is no detection of objects. Just a constant alarm noise.

Any thoughts?

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2016, 03:25:23 PM »
PS

All sensors are ticking away.

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2016, 03:43:17 PM »
Just tried replacement speakers front and back, still get the alarm noise.

I've tried just using either front or rears sensors connected, however it produces the typical fault noise when only one set is connected.

Bit annoying my vagcom lead didnt work.  :-[

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2016, 05:12:08 PM »
Sounds like you have some sensors picking up non existent obstructions to me,front and rear.
You need vcds to identify which sensors by looking at measuring blocks.

At least system is live now which is good and it's not showing a fault as such as light steady and not getting the fault warning tone.

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2016, 05:26:55 PM »
Hi Johnnyroper

Thanks you, thats something a little bit positive.

So after what you said, i went back out and drove the car forward about a meter.
The back of the car was less than a cm to a bush @ work, however once moving it nothing was behind the car.

I then turned the sensors on, and the alarm pulsing to the front and rear sensor has stopped, however the front buzzer was a solid tone as if a obstruction was there. switch was a solid colour too.

I then reversed the car again toward the bush, and the sensor was picking the obstruction as expected.
However as soon as i got about 10cm to the bush the alarm pulsing to the front and rear speaker started again.

Pulling the car forward, the pulsing to front and rear speaker stops.

From this i would imaged your suggestion, the front sensors are picking up a non-existent obstruction.

I've unplugged them for now so i can drive home and not hear the irritating noise when i put the car in reverse (it still ringing in my ears  ;D)
Ill check every sensors when i get home as i have a spare brand new Ford sensor (from Ford itself)

I wish i had the VCDS now, as this would same me so much time when i get home
I'm going to order the cable Friday, and if i can get the cable working i will getting straight on Ross's website and purchasing VCDS lite.

I would image from what you have said, to what i have listed above, if you have hit the front and rear sensor threshold this is some form of alert? Rather than having both speaker doing a long constant tone it would pulse between the two speakers so that it you could hear one over the over.

Thanks again for your help.

I hope to have positive news tomorrow morning.  8-)




Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2016, 06:42:50 PM »
Back to square one.

Turns out someone put selotape on one of the front sensor.

All sensors are ticking away however after the drive home the parkin module produce the typical error again. Flashing orange light.

Not sure where to go from now

Any suggestions

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2016, 07:02:05 PM »
Dont worry its not even registering reverse switch although this working as ive tested with multimeter.

Ive given up with the factory sensors

Ive spent nearly 150 trying to fix this and ive had enough

Just going to get some aftermarket rears as thats all i need.

Im not normally one to admit defeat but this has just taken the jammie dodger.  ;D

Thank you all for you help. Its been much appriciated.

Offline SilverBeast

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2016, 07:30:47 PM »
VCDS-LITE is a free download from Ross-Tech as it's freeware to encourage you to purchase full blown VCDS if you need the extra features (which most people won't). You only have to buy the aftermarket lead.  It will be worth getting anyway as it's useful for rest of vehicle.

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2016, 08:54:17 AM »
Hi SilverBeast,

I did originally purchase a cable, however either the cable or my OB2 II port is duff.

I'll be ordering a replacement on Friday, hopefully i can get this working.

Unfortunately the PDC module is now failing to power on again. Looks like I've had a spat of bad luck having two modules fail. I'm suspecting a short somewhere.
I've checked all the connections and these appear fine, I could do resistance test, however i'm not going to bother fixing it and spending even more time on it.
I have a aftermarket kit (rears) which i removed from my focus so i'll use that and buy a new front bumper trim (where the front sensors sit) so i can remove the front sensors.

Once again, thanks everybody for there input. Its been much appreciated.


Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Factory Sensors To AfterMarket
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2016, 10:51:24 AM »
If you say all was working until the stereo shorted out then it does sound like a wiring fault somewhere, possibly in the wiring leading to and from the parking sensor switch on the dash. Wiring faults, everybody's favourite!  [NO]
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 10:52:25 AM by insanitybeard »
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

 

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