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Author Topic: Flat battery  (Read 5977 times)

Offline Stumuzz

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Flat battery
« on: December 06, 2015, 11:15:56 AM »
Good morning,
I hope someone can help.
I have a problem with the battery going flat and sometimes takes awhile turning over before starting.
I've had the battery and alternator tested at Halffords. went thru varies tests including running at high revs with all possible electrics turned on,high beam and blowers on full. Battery and alternator passed.
I did have the auxiliary fusebox bun out last year, could that be related?

Regards

Stuart.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 11:18:28 AM by Stumuzz »
The more I learn makes me realise how little I know.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2015, 11:37:27 AM »
What was replaced after the engine bay fusebox burnout? The fusebox only or the cable as well? Or did you replace the connector on the end of the cable and solder it?
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline Stumuzz

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
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  • Region: South East
Re: Flat battery
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2015, 11:52:41 AM »
What was replaced after the engine bay fusebox burnout? The fusebox only or the cable as well? Or did you replace the connector on the end of the cable and solder it?

Just a new fusebox including a cable to attache to  the battery.
The more I learn makes me realise how little I know.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2015, 11:58:02 AM »
The root cause of the box burning out is the charging cable from the alternator into the fusebox itself, if you haven't addressed that then the original problem still remains- have you read this?  The fusebox melting is the effect of the issue, not the cause.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2015, 11:58:23 AM »
What about the two large black cables? these are the ones that usually have a problem with high resistance.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
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Offline Stumuzz

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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2015, 12:05:33 PM »
The root cause of the box burning out is the charging cable from the alternator into the fusebox itself, if you haven't addressed that then the original problem still remains- have you read this?  The fusebox melting is the effect of the issue, not the cause.
Just re-read it. :'(

What about the two large black cables? these are the ones that usually have a problem with high resistance.

Thanks guys. Where can I those two cables?
The more I learn makes me realise how little I know.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2015, 12:40:19 PM »
Do you mean where can you buy the cables? Repairing them will be the cheapest option if they're not too far gone, I bought a new alternator- battery fusebox charging cable from Ford about 12 months ago and it was in the region of £100 quid, exactly the same part from VW would likely be cheaper.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline Stumuzz

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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2015, 02:05:28 PM »
Do you mean where can you buy the cables? Repairing them will be the cheapest option if they're not too far gone, I bought a new alternator- battery fusebox charging cable from Ford about 12 months ago and it was in the region of £100 quid, exactly the same part from VW would likely be cheaper.

Yes I did mean where to buy the cables from :-[
Thank you.

Stuart.
The more I learn makes me realise how little I know.

Offline Stumuzz

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The more I learn makes me realise how little I know.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2015, 02:45:14 PM »
I used 170amp for mine and it's fine don't forget you will need m8 and m6 lugs to suit,I soldered and heat shrunk mine.
Buy 2mtrs of it and that will be plenty to fit.
As the 170 is thicker than standard the lugs were bigger so needed trimming slightly,also try and fit fuse and cable on different terminal in box away from the other black cables to spread heat

Offline SilverBeast

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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2015, 02:58:18 PM »
First I'd check the existing cables. 
(i) Open fuse box and inspect
(ii) The cables themselves will warm up (though I'm not sure how quickly).  I caught mine - the one in the linked thread - before I had any symptoms.  If you have been on a journey for 30min-1hr open bonnet and carefullycheck temperature of cables.  Don't just grab them as if there is an issue they will get hot enough to burn you. Check right next to the fuse box.

Top right one is the 150 Amp feed from Alternator so gets the most stick and will probably fail first.  If it's not too bad you may be able to solder it.  If it's too far gone the copper will have oxidised and solder will not stick. If it needs replacing relatively easy to do the whole cable using minimum 170Amp cable from the ebay link you found.

Next one down is the feed to the cabin Fuse box.  If that's too far gone it's probably easier to cut off a short section till you find clean copper and use a butt joint to link in a short length (of the same cable as above), rather than trying to replace the whole cable as I suspect it would be a PITA.  I got away with just soldering the crimp on mine.

Probably most important is to make sure you solder all the crimps, even if they haven't failed - preventative maintenance

Offline Stumuzz

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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2015, 09:03:59 AM »
When I replaced Aux fusebox I did cut back the cable but never soldered the new lug.
I've ordered the cable and lugs to replace the old one which runs from the alternator to Aux fusebox.

Thank you guys.

Stuart.
The more I learn makes me realise how little I know.

Offline steveo59

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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2015, 01:15:17 AM »
Hi, prior to cutting back the insulation on the red lead from the battery fuse box to the  alternator via the starter motor,  why not do a voltage drop test to check for increased resistance in the wire. It's usually corrosion that increases the resistance in the wire that in turn increases the heat produced that melts the fuse box.

Offline Stumuzz

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  • First Name: Stuart
  • Region: South East
Re: Flat battery
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2015, 09:15:00 AM »
Hi, prior to cutting back the insulation on the red lead from the battery fuse box to the  alternator via the starter motor,  why not do a voltage drop test to check for increased resistance in the wire. It's usually corrosion that increases the resistance in the wire that in turn increases the heat produced that melts the fuse box.

Not too good with electrics :-[  What settings on a multi meter please?
car wouldn't start twice yesterday (turned over very slowly),lucky I've started keeping my starter/boost pack in the in gal. Battery was off and on charge all weekend.

Stuart.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 09:17:55 AM by Stumuzz »
The more I learn makes me realise how little I know.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2015, 10:27:51 AM »
Dc voltage.
Measure across battery terminals see what charge rate is then measure black lead to battery earth and red lead on main cable in alternator and see if voltage drops between there and battery. When mine was on way out if I had all electrics on the terminal for alternator lead and the fuse were hot very quickly put a dropout water on and see if it steams no need for multimeter to see the problem.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2015, 10:31:26 AM »
Hi, prior to cutting back the insulation on the red lead from the battery fuse box to the  alternator via the starter motor,  why not do a voltage drop test to check for increased resistance in the wire. It's usually corrosion that increases the resistance in the wire that in turn increases the heat produced that melts the fuse box.
Not too good with electrics :-[  What settings on a multi meter please?
car wouldn't start twice yesterday (turned over very slowly),lucky I've started keeping my starter/boost pack in the in gal. Battery was off and on charge all weekend.

Stuart.


The Galaxy diesel slightly different to a lot of cars as the alternator and starter cables are not shared,alternator one runs from fuse box and start one is seperate direct from battery.

Offline Stumuzz

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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2015, 11:33:49 AM »
I will be replacing the alternator to aux fusebox cable,when parts arrive.

Stuart.
The more I learn makes me realise how little I know.

Offline steveo59

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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2015, 12:31:58 AM »
Hi Johnnyroper,
Set your multimeter to 20v DC, with the engine switched off connect the black lead on your meter to the negative terminal on your battery and the red to the positive terminal. A reading of 12.6v indicates fully charged. 12.4=75% charged. 12.2=50%. 12.0=flat battery. Start engine, connect meter as previously, you should now see reading approx 14.2v. Anything between13.5v and 15v you r battery is charging. Now still with engine running, connect black lead to positive battery terminal and red lead to the output terminal on the alternator (the one with the thick wire that goes to the starter motor and then on to the battery fusebox). If all is well you should get a reading of less than 0.5v,  the least the better but not 0.0v. You still have the charging voltage, ie approx 14v running thro the wire, but the meter is showing you the voltage difference between one end of the wire and the other.(the amount lost because of resistance in the circuit. This can be in the wire or due to bad connections). If the voltage lost is more than 0.5v then this is too high. In this case move the red meter lead along the wire nearer to the battery testing different
points along its length.  The reading on the meter should gradually get less, but if there is a point of high resistance, once you get past that point the reading should drop markedly. Lastly you will end up with the black lead on the battery terminal and the red lead on the battery connector. This should read zero. If not then remove connector from battery and clean both with a wire brush, then reassemble and test again.  If you want to know more about voltage drop then go on youtube.
Hope this helps.

Offline Stumuzz

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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2016, 11:36:49 AM »
Hi Guys and happy new year,

Well  I was hoping to update that after replacing the cable with new and the lugs soldered and heat shrink wrapped that would be the end of it.

I've now have a different problem,
Most times it still starts first turn of the key.
Turn the key, all lights dim but no starter motor turning over. I try several more times and hold the key and
it turns over really slowly, like a near flat battery. I'll keep trying sometimes holding the key for up to 10-15 seconds and the starter motor slowly speeds up.
on about the 6th try the starter motor will speed up enough to start the engine.
has anyone any ideas what this problem could be.
Regards
Stuart.
The more I learn makes me realise how little I know.

Offline steveo59

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Re: Flat battery
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2016, 12:24:16 AM »
Hi Stumuzz,
Sounds like you still have high resistance in the circuit. Did you ever do that voltage drop test? If the problem is not in the wire or the connections it may be across the starter motor solenoid. Look at you tube for how to test.

 

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