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Author Topic: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems  (Read 1099 times)

Offline cruickgl

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Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« on: February 26, 2019, 06:21:52 PM »
Hi All, can someone offer some guidance on an issue I have with my latest car, a Ford Galaxy MK2 54 plate TDI Ghia. I purchased it about 3-4 weeks ago and chopped in my VW Sharan which I had nothing but issues with over the year I had it. This one is so much better but has one issue and not being an expert I can't quite get to the bottom of it.
It's a bitch to start first thing in the morning. I have to turn it over for about 20 seconds before it will burst into life, after which it is fine for the rest of the day. I have a Yuasa battery in the vehicle which looks pretty new. Using a volt meter I measured across the terminals and saw 12.8v. I took the glow plug rail off, asked the gf to turn the ignition on and I do not get a 12v burst that I would expect to the rail. I did this with one leg to earth and one in the rail. I have checked the glow plug fuse in the fuse box in front of the battery compartment. It looks good. I have 12v on every fuse in that compartment.
In the vehicle when the ignition is turned on the glow plug lamp illuminates for perhaps less than a second, whatever the temperature outside. I have also read on here regarding Relay 109 which has some control over the glow plugs. I have got to mine, it is a light grey one. I took it out, gave it a tap and put it back in with no change.
My friend does not think that it will be a wiring fault, the wires are substantial and only located within the engine compartment (i.e not going through door pillars). I do not have any issues with door led's which I have read indicates an issue with with the relay.
Is there any other sensor that I can check, or will my next port of call be a replacement glow plug relay? Should I get a 12v condition at the glow rail with it off the glow plugs (i.e not in circuit??) Any help or guidance would be appreciated.

Offline Mirez

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2019, 07:02:39 PM »
I would put glowplugs to the back of the list to be honest, the PD engine isn't the same as most diesels and can happily start with no glowplugs right down to about -2 degrees.

I would be looking at getting it read for fault codes, especially to see if you have one for the cam position sensor.
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Offline brianh

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2019, 08:01:23 PM »
Relay 109 has more to do with the immobiliser than anything else, But if its going faulty it should cause the led on the drivers door to flash differently when trying to start the car, so should be easily ruled out.

I've attached the wiring diagrams for the glow plug fuse from TIS, but these only cover upto late 2003 on mine (no later stuff in TIS) so may not be completely accurate.

VCDS is probably your best bet to start with though. Its worth having anyway as works on lots of other stuff in the car as well.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2019, 08:53:43 PM »
Sounds like you have 2 faults to me a loss of power to glow plugs,which as Mirez said wonít cause major issue unless temp is really low. However I would suspect the relay at fault. Seem to remember it lives down front of battery? Also check the fuses in battery fuse box.

The poor starting after overnight could be fuel leaking back to tank, try fitting some clear fuel pipe temporary between filter and tandom pump and also between head and tandem on fuel return. Get up and running make sure no air in the hoses and then leave overnight see if air gets in to system.

Have you tried switching ignition on and off a few times to prime system before starting see if it starts any easier?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 08:55:46 PM by johnnyroper »

Offline cruickgl

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2019, 09:15:23 AM »
Hi, sorry for late reply....I have tried ignition on 4 or 5 times to prime system and it worked a couple of times like that but generally it doesn't work. As soon as it fails to start first time I have to go through rigmarole of turning it over for approx. 20 seconds before it starts up. Am interested to know the exact location of the glow plug relay now. I opened up the fuse box at the front of the engine bay and checked the state of the hardwire fuses (they all look quite shiny and newish). Is the relay located near/under there ???
As for fault code reader, I did purchase an Aldi/Lidl one middle of last year for my VW Sharan as I had endless issues with that (loved the car, didn't like the problems....hence buying the Galaxy). I have used it on this one and shows no issues. I am convinced it is a relay issue not supplying power to the rail but would like to know where I find the relay.
There might be a delay before I start faulting the car again.....I nearly put a chainsaw through my finger on Monday evening so one of my hands is bandaged up at the moment !!!!

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2019, 10:07:39 AM »
Thinking about it ignore my relay location I am confusing that with my other car, glow relay is on fuse box no 103.
As a quick check unplug coolant temp sensor and see if glow plugs power up. Could be dodgy coolant temp over reading so not putting glow on and causing cold start fuelling issues.

You could really do with vcds and a kkl lead to check faults and live data.

Offline brianh

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2019, 10:09:59 AM »
Its the one labelled k70 on the second picture.

Its one of the back layers of the main fusebox, same place as relay 109 is found. The one inside the car by the drivers knee area. At least it is on the ones listed in TIS. I can't confirm for sure they haven't moved it later

One thing that can happen with the engine bay fusebox is the fuses can crack in a way that you can't see until you undo the nuts and remove them, if yours is all shiny its probabbly been replaced (they do melt due to a bad crimp on the cable leading from the alternator, its worth checking if it has been replaced that the cable has been addressed as well, ideally it needs soldering to the crimp connector not just crimping onto it as it was originally)

If your taking it out again to check it, its worth taking the top off of the relay 109 and re-soldering any dodgy looking joints whilst your there. The plastic cap will prise off if your careful with it, and can just be pushed back on.

Diagnostics wise, VCDS is your best bet, the lite version (free) will work with a cable like this and do most of what you'd need
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-Cable-KKL-VAG-COM-409-1-OBD2-II-OBD-Diagnostic-Scanner-VW-Audi-Seat-VCDS-CD/273396842691

But if its detecting nothing with your current one, then wouldn't expect it to detect any errors. It may be possible for others to advise checking values to see whats going on using vcds, not sure if the lite version can do that.

Does the light on the door do anything?

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2019, 11:47:20 AM »
Timing may also be an issue, as the car is new to you and may have had issues before you had the car.
Do you have any history for servicing and belt changes?
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2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

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With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
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Offline cruickgl

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2019, 01:29:55 PM »
Looked at what servicing docs I have there is no evidence of belt changes. Believe it or not, for a 15yr old car it has only done 64k miles. I was suspicious about this, there is no MOT history online from 2009-2015 and in that time the car had done 8000 miles. However, on balance the inside of the vehicle was immaculate (drivers seat, pedals and state of the buttons normally give clues). The dash buttons are still matt (not shiny from being pressed) . I suspect this vehicle was taken abroad and may have been used as a holiday car and has been sat idle. The car drives beautifully, feels very tight. Cruise control works perfectly and DVD multimedia system is also mint. It is just starting from cold that is an issue, and I really suspect it will be a simple fix, once I locate the issue.
There is plenty for me to look at, the coolant temp sensor may be a first start.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2019, 03:12:19 PM »
Aside from the starting with the history or lack of for belt I would seriously consider a belt and pump kit change.

Offline cruickgl

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2019, 08:02:18 PM »
Thanks everyone, with a little time tomorrow I will get into the fuse box and investigate the pre-glow relay K70. I might go to the breakers in the morning and get hold of a spare relay if I can find one. Will be back online with my findings when I get the chance.

Offline cruickgl

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2019, 07:44:30 PM »
Update: Hi all, this afternoon I had a little look at the car again. I think I have proved the glow circuit ok. I disconnected the coolant temp sensor and the glow circuit lamp lit up in the car for a good 10 seconds. I checked voltage at the glow rail and got 12v. Tried to start the car and same problem with starting from cold so now guessing it is a fuel priming issue or loss of pressure on start up. Got into the fuse box and put my hand on the fuel pump relay and can feel it operating when I turn the ignition. I can also hear the fuel pump operating when I put my head under the car with the ignition key turned.
What would be my next steps ???

Offline brianh

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2019, 10:33:43 PM »
Start looking at the belt if I were you - the PD type engine uses the camshaft to fire the injectors, if the timing is off it does cause problems, plenty of info on here about it, only other thing I can suggest you can check is to put some clear fuel hose in circuit and check its not ending up with loads of air bubbles in the system when you try to start.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2019, 11:19:46 PM »
Next steps are invest in vcds and a kkl lead to get real time info from ECU.

Whatís cranking speed like a pd needs at least 250rpm to fire up.

Check condition of the camshaft as a worn cam can cause issues.

As above timing given no history of belt itís a good place to check.

And as suggested previously some clear fuel pipe to see if any air bubbles in system after being left overnight,injector seals could be an issue causing fuel to drain back to tank likewise the tandem pump. When was fuel filter last changed?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2019, 11:21:17 PM »
Also forgot to say try clamping fuel return hose on filter,the one of thermostatic valve see if any change in starting next morning. Only start briefly and then remove it.

Offline cruickgl

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2019, 01:00:18 PM »
Update: Just to throw a spanner in the works, I left the fuel pump relay removed overnight (it is not the original relay, at some point it has been changed). I was expecting this morning to attempt to start the vehicle and it would either be even worse to start, or not at all. Car started first time from cold with no foot on the gas even.
I have now put the relay back in. I will use the car today and then leave overnight and see if it is back to normal poor starting tomorrow when the engine is cold again.

Offline cruickgl

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2019, 10:47:01 PM »
Hi there, apologies for no further update until now with my problem but things have now moved on. I have now proved my starting problems to air in the fuel pipes. I had previously changed the fuel filter as I had been told of common issues with the fuel filter and this did not cure my fault. I purchased a hand suction pump after viewing a video on youtube of a Canadian guy testing poor starting on VW 1.9 Tdi engine and having followed what he did I found I too had air in the fuel system.
However can someone also help me as I may possibly have two faults. At the in-tank fuel pump am I correct in assuming I should have constant 12v with the ignition key on at pins 1&4 on the plug to the fuel pump ?? I do not have this. At present with the ignition on I appear to have 3.2v to earth at what I assume is pin3 (it is a lilac wire with black stripe). With ignition on should the pump be humming constantly? I hear nothing.I did read somewhere that it only comes on for a second to prime the fuel system but it would be great to hear what the starting procedure is as far as the pump is concerned. It could be that I have a wiring fault to the pump and it has failed with the pump somehow stuck open allowing fuel to run back into the tank causing my air issue. It is entirely possible that I may have knocked a relay or blown a fuse whilst fiddling in the fuse box previously. I am sure that previously I have heard the pump on start up. Which fuse and which relay should I check for this? Any help gratefully appreciated.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2019, 11:41:21 PM »
The in tank pump will briefly run for a second or so when switching ignition on just to prime the system, once engine starts pump runs continuously.

Have you isolated where the air is entering the system? It can be from a few different places on these.

Thermostatic valve/seals on filter.
Injector seals allowing fuel leak back to tank
Tandem pump allowing leak back
In tank pump/sender unit allowing leak back.
Also the hoses could be at fault.

Have you tried clamping off the feed and return hoses from tank to filter at filter end? If you do that and fault remains itís an issue between filter and engine somewhere, if itís ok then looking at issues other side of filter like in tank pump,fuel cooler or pipe work.

Offline cruickgl

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2019, 12:16:03 PM »
Hi there, I have removed the flow pipe from the in-tank pump( it has the black pipe connected and an arrow with an outward direction next to it) and clamped on a fuel hose to a 7 litre capacity hand suction pump I purchased off ebay. I have to pump it four or 5 times before fuel comes out of the tank and there is a lot of air in it as well. If you watch this video I have followed exactly what this guy has done. My fault condition is exactly how he has described it and my results from the tests I have done are exactly the same as his so suggesting I also have an issue with my in-tank pump. However I was wondering if I might also have an issue with the wiring to the pump, hence my questions above. See the link below...he's a bit chilled out but it's easy to follow.


Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2019, 06:21:19 PM »
You defo testing at pump wiring and not sender unit for gauge?

Have you popped feed pipe off filter and see if it pumps fuel when first turning ignition on?

My next step would be to take unit out of tank and check for debris etc,mine was filthy and covered in bits of crap.

Offline cruickgl

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Re: Ford Galaxy MK2 Cold Start Problems
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2019, 10:37:36 AM »
Update. I have proved fault at the in-tank pump. Tested the wiring again yesterday and got burst of 12v at pump on ignition start up and then can hear pump running on start-up. I have removed the pump and given a thorough clean up. At the top of the housing of the main pump components there was a small housing with a spring check-valve. It looked a little crushed so I have slightly elongated the spring and clipped back in. Replaced pump and I filled the tank to the brim last night so there was no air in the tank. I blew out all the tubes on the pump with air where I could as well. Left overnight and car started instantly this morning.
I will watch and wait for the fuel level to recede over the next few days and if sluggish starting occurs again then I will replace the pump. It is quite an easy job.

 

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