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Author Topic: gearbox or clutch issue  (Read 11033 times)

Offline columbiers

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  • Model: Alhambra Mk2
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gearbox or clutch issue
« on: May 18, 2015, 10:33:50 AM »
Hi,
Hoping someone can help with this! Driving to work this morning the car started screeching whenever I changed gear. Going to 3rd from 4th it thumps in but eventually goes in. 5th I can't get into, it just starts to shake and won't engage.
Is this likely to be gearbox or clutch/flywheel? It drives fine once in gear. I know it has has a single flywheel conversion in the past. It is  6 speed 1.9 TDI Alhambra.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2015, 11:33:51 AM »
Do the gears select ok with the engine switched off? And is there still resistance at the clutch pedal (it doesn't 'feel' different to how it was prior to the issues)? If there's a screeching then possible causes could include the slave cylinder release bearing having packed up or something, does it run/ feel ok when you're not changing gear- no detectable vibration?
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline columbiers

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  • Model: Alhambra Mk2
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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2015, 12:17:41 PM »
Hi, yes switched off goes into every gear fine. Clutch pedal feels fine when depressed. When running it drives perfectly no vibration.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2015, 12:28:33 PM »
Hm, in that case on the basis of what you've said I'd be suspecting possible failure of the clutch slave cylinder release bearing or a fault with the clutch pressure plate, either ain't good as if that is the cause it's gearbox off again to sort unfortunately. There could be other causes so don't take what I've said as gospel but that's what it sounds like to me.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline columbiers

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  • Model: Alhambra Mk2
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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2015, 12:35:09 PM »
Thank you. I thought clutch was most likely. I can afford to change clutch and flywheel or swap the gearbox for sechand one but not both! Hopefully new clutch will solve it if there is no other way of diagnosing.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: '54 130ps TDI Ghia
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  • Region: South West
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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2015, 12:45:00 PM »
To get a better idea you could try getting an assistant to put it into gear with the engine running whilst you try to locate the source of the squeal to get a better idea if it's coming from clutch or gearbox area- does it still squeal putting it into gear when you're not moving? The only other thing I can think of is that the clutch master cylinder behind the pedal is on it's way out and you're not getting enough pressure applied at the slave cylinder to fully disengage the clutch when you press the pedal, this would be the better fault to have as the master cylinder does not require gearbox removal to replace!
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline columbiers

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  • Model: Alhambra Mk2
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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2015, 12:57:16 PM »
Yes master cylinder would be much easier for me to replace! Is there any way I can diagnosif the cylinder is at fault. I really don't want to replace the clutch and find out the fault was with the cylinder all along.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2015, 01:08:08 PM »
Not really, usually if the seals in the cylinder fail then it starts leaking brake fluid from the rear of the cylinder (where the rod that connects the pedal to the cylinder emerges from the cylinder body) and down onto the carpet in the pedal box area, but just because there's no evidence of fluid leakage doesn't mean there's no fault..... is the brake fluid level in the reservoir ok?

Another thread with a similar issue here.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 01:10:43 PM by insanitybeard »
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline columbiers

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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2015, 05:37:45 PM »
Update- no signs of master cylinder leaking at all, fluid is at max.

Trying to go into 5th always produces a grinding/screeching and it won't go into gear. 1st and 2nd are always fine, 3rd generally screeches and thumps in on way down, changing up is fine.

Would a clutch problem change according to gears like this or be the same regardless of gear? Even when sat on the  drive trying to select 5th with engine on causes the screech as clutch is released.
Just want to make sure its a clutch issue rather than gearbox- don't want to do the job twice  :)

Offline columbiers

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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2015, 06:24:24 PM »
Also, what is the best option to go with for the clutch? Replace with a new dual mass flywheel and clutch? oR stick with the single conversion? Looking back through receipts the previous owner fitted a Valeo solid conversion 18months ago.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2015, 06:53:58 PM »
If there was a fault with the gear selector mechanism I would expect it to give trouble when trying to put it into gear with the engine off also, unless it's a fault which only occurs with the gearbox shafts turning over (i.e, with the engine running) and under load, but that's unusual and not something I've come across.

What happens if you try starting in each gear with the clutch pedal in?
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline columbiers

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  • Model: Alhambra Mk2
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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2015, 07:06:24 PM »
All gears attempt to pull away, apart from 5th which makes a grinding/screeching sound and I have to put cltch back in.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2015, 07:17:07 PM »
Then that's sounding more like either a gearbox selector or internal gearbox fault to me, if you pre-selected 5th with the engine static and it still screeched when you started up and lifted the clutch it sounds like 5th never properly engaged in the first place. Has this started happening all of a sudden or have there been any warning signs prior to this?
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline columbiers

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  • Model: Alhambra Mk2
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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2015, 07:25:32 PM »
No signs  at all, just started this morning.
3rd is bad when changing down, changing up is fine. Is a selector fault fixed by a gearbox replacement?

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2015, 07:41:26 PM »
It is, as long as the fault is with the selector mechanism within/ mounted on the gearbox and not the cables or gearshift lever in the cabin. For the fault you're describing though, I'd be surprised if it was either of those latter things. How old is the vehicle/ how many miles has it done? If you can get it to a gearbox specialist I'd suggest getting their opinion, some faults can be repaired without a complete gearbox strip as the selector mechanism unbolts from the top of the gearbox- comprising of items 1-9 on this parts diagram. If it's a problem with the selector forks or synchros though, it'll be a complete strip.

I'd recommend the opinion of somebody more specialised in gearbox repair before proceeding though- and a trustworthy 'specialist' at that!
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline columbiers

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  • Model: Alhambra Mk2
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  • Region: South East
Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2015, 08:03:21 PM »
Yes, it will probably come to that to at least diagnose. I'm happy doing the clutch or changing the box but I don't want  to get involved in swapping expensive parts in the hope that will solve it.

I've been looking at https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/galaxy-mk2-gearbox-drive-stub-axel-and-half-shaft-%28inner-drive-shaft%29/- the noises made are very similar except mine only does it in 5th...

Offline columbiers

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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2015, 08:37:51 PM »
UPDATE!!

Well, it's not the clutch! Couldn't wait till tomorrow so quick bit of late evening spannering removing the undertray revealed a lot of gearbox oil.
And this:




It is on the near side. It looks like a cap,  some sort of (twisted) oil seal inside and a bearing of sorts?? Presumably the lost gear oil has caused the poor changes, hopefully not damaging the gear box permanently (I've driven 14 miles today)

So my only question is... what is it?? Why has it blown? And how can I replace it? Haynes is no help.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2015, 09:29:33 PM »
Shite...... that'll be it then. Those balls are from a failed gearbox bearing, the cap is an end blanking cap which seals the gearbox and keeps the oil in and crud out, the disintigrated bearing and unsupported shaft has forced the cap off the end. That's fairly terminal I'm afraid, usually gearbox bearings aren't replaceable without a total gearbox strip, though looking at the pictures and the condition of the bearing now you may be able to extract both bearing rings with pullers through the end of the casing, the question is if this is proper procedure- I would say not- you'll have to hammer a relacement bearing in instead of pressing it in which isn't ideal and I'm not sure if there are or should be shims etc present to control shaft end float/ preload etc. If the shaft has been running unsupported for a while then the probability of damage to other components and other debris now being loose in the gearbox is pretty high. :(
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline columbiers

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  • Model: Alhambra Mk2
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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2015, 05:38:54 PM »
Thank you for the help!
Sourced a good used gearbox, will start fitting once it arrives. Hopefully will be a straight forward job to remove/replace.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2015, 05:47:34 PM »
No worries, you might have been able to knock a new bearing into your old 'box without stripping it but I would have classed that as a very risky undertaking, you don't know if it's just the bearing that had failed or if something else had worn/ given up to cause the failure.

As for taking the 'box out, just beware- it'll be a fair old lump. VW like using XZN fasteners as well as the usual internal torx and hex so make sure you've got a set of sockets to fit 'em before proceeding!
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline columbiers

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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2015, 06:04:36 PM »
Yes, new bearing and seal was priced around 80 so really wasn't worth the risk, if it was 10 I might have tried.
Got plenty of sockets including xzn so should be good there. Think I will hire an engine crane to support engine and/box to help.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2015, 06:17:15 PM »
Yeah, or a decent brace bar if you can get hold of one, trouble with the angled wings on the Galaxy is that you need one with angled feet to fit properly, the Ford one had bolt holes which bolted into the wing mounting top bolt threads so it was secure and couldn't move which was good. 

P.S, a few pictures for a writeup of the procedure would be good!  ;)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 06:21:37 PM by insanitybeard »
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline Russats

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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2015, 10:07:04 PM »
Did this resolve your issues?

I've avoided 5th for over a year because it will not go in, it was as if there was something blocking it solid.  Though recently it's started going in fine. It actually got stuck in 5th once.

I'm tempted to replace not sure it's a job for a novice correct?

Offline mike wilson

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Re: gearbox or clutch issue
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2015, 09:30:55 AM »
General consensus on other forums seems to be that fitting a SMF where there should be a DMF will often result in catastrophic gearbox failure.

 

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