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Author Topic: Head Gasket or ?  (Read 24623 times)

Offline bigjeeze

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Head Gasket or ?
« on: July 25, 2015, 04:49:52 PM »
My MK2 has been losing a small amount of water for a long time - I just kept on topping it up. On Wednesday this week however, it suddenly started to overheat = something it has never done.  When I got home there was no apparent water in the expansion bottle - but when I released the cap  it filled rapidly. I immediately thought head gasket. I still think head gasket but I have a few questions. When the water filled up the tank - it was and is clear and clean with no signs of oil or any contaminants. The engine runs perfectly, except it gets hot.  I don't think that any water is coming back via the return but am not totally sure. What I am confused by is that when left overnight to cool down there is still pressure in the expansion tank.  When pressure is released and again left overnight it doesn't drain back it remains in the expansion bottle.  Is it possible that the return hose might be blocked - If so how best to test it?. If it is the water pump again why does the water not drain back?

Any ideas ( That aren't the head gasket!! ??? ????

If it is then I will have to sort it but I am hoping that it isn't.

Over to you guys!
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Offline Chrispb

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2015, 04:39:08 AM »
Hi BJ
The pressure when cold is the clue here, normally pressure builds as the engine warms up then as it cools down so the pressure goes back to zero.
When a head gasket is blowing the combustion gas is forced into the cooling system usually up to the limit of the pressure cap, anything over the limit of the cap will be blown out of the cap.
As the engine cools down the combustion gas will remain until the cap is released.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

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With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
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Offline columbiers

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2015, 04:28:18 PM »
Any garage can quickly test for presence of exhaust gas in the coolant- quite often they will do it for free if they're not busy and you ask politely.
Or if you prefer to do it yourself, search for block test kit on ebay, around £30 and a useful piece of equipment to have around.
This will confirm/eliminate head gasket which, unfortunately, it sounds like it is.

Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2015, 07:27:54 PM »
Thanks Guys - I have come to that conclusion as well. I have started to strip the engine down but my TIS running on a laptop with Windows XP won't talk to my printer so I can print the text but not the drawings.  I have never removed the head and am dreading taking off the manifolds.  Ho HUm.
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2015, 03:40:34 PM »


Started stripping the head today. What a pig!    The camshaft wheel thingy - I don't have a puller so that is hold back one bolt for the timing cover.   The exhaust to manifold - three nuts - the studs have sheared so that 's likely to be fun. Lastly - I need to remove the O/S drive shaft etc to get at the manifold bolts - what a swine ( there's a porcine theme starting here!).   I need to get an assistant to get the D/S off as I can't be arsed to keep on jumping up to put the car in and out of gear so as to hold the shaft still whilst I undo the bolts.  Anyone know where to get the puller for the camshaft thingy?  I have a number of 3 legged ones but none can be made to work successfully ( by me).


BJ
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Offline bigdave982

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2015, 07:23:32 PM »
Not that ive done one myself,but do you need to remove camshaft pulley to just replace head gasket?
Surely lift head off and camshaft etc comes with it


Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2015, 02:20:23 AM »
Unless the O.P means there's a bolt for the rear timing belt cover which is obscured by the camshaft hub.
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2015, 06:58:38 PM »
Yes that is my problem. But I managed to get round it by sliding the head over the timing cover.  I did however really struggle to get the manifolds off. In the end I removed the inlet manifold and then lifted the head complete with the exhaust manifold and turbo. The biggest issues I had was that the exhaust studs - one of which sheared and then the turbo oil feed pipe when trying to undo it,  twisted and broke. So I need a new one of those.

I have to say there is no obvious blowing of the gasket but then after 225k miles I suppose that is reason enough.  Thinking of Mirez's manifold cleaning I had a good look at mine - remarkably clear - Slight deposits but nothing to get excited about.

I now need to find out where I can get the turbo oil feed pipe from.  I also need a new turbo to exhaust gasket.

I'll elt you know how that progresses - if at all.
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Offline Chrispb

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2015, 10:25:32 PM »
Have a good check for hairline cracks aroung the valves
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2015, 10:00:05 PM »
Got a new turbo oil feed pipe, new studs for the turbo to exhaust and a new gasket & nuts.  I am now in the process of taking out all of the valves to fit new stem seals - bit tricky but so far so good. 7 more to go!!.  I still need to remove the camshaft pulley as I want to replace the oil seal. Still thinking about that one.   I have removed the camshaft - the bearings show quite a bit of wear but I think that I will replace them as is.  If I could find them cheaply enough I might replace but I will see. I'm not going to interfere with the injectors as they have been working OK as far as I can tell. There isn't a combustion chamber per se in the head as this takes place in the crown of the piston - but all are pretty clean and very little carbon.
I looked at the turbo - no obvious movement on the bearing and very little apparent wear.

Once I have finished with the valve stems I'll start putting it back together.


This is the first diesel I have ever taken to bits.
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Offline sasquartch

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2015, 10:09:34 AM »
Might be worth replacing the injector loom whilst its all in bits, a common cause of misfires on high milers

Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2015, 10:14:07 AM »
  Good idea, but as it has always worked and money is tight I'll leave as is - probably only to curse when it goes wrong later!!   If I can't get everything working again I'll have to scrap it as I won't be throwing money away. That said I am quietly confident all can be repaired.

I hadn't realised that you also need to replace the camshaft bearing bolts as they too are stretch type.   More money!
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Offline Russats

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2015, 01:51:38 PM »
Might be worth replacing the injector loom whilst its all in bits, a common cause of misfires on high milers

Yes...... That's exactly what I did to cure mine  ;)

Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2015, 11:22:16 AM »
I have at last managed to get the valve stem seals in - after much alteration of my valve lifter - The collets and my fat fingers don't mix!.

The head is now sitting on the car waiting to be torqued down - I have removed the egr valve and to allow better access to the exhaust manifold bolts and the inlet manifold as well.  I was going to replace the turbo oil pipe before fitting the head but it looked like that would make it difficult to get the pipe in so I left that for later.

More soon.
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2015, 05:55:25 PM »
Did you get the camshaft sprocket off?!
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2015, 01:32:20 PM »
Yes I managed to get a puller from Machine Mart for £14 that did the trick OK.  Its all back in the car and I started it for the first time this morning. Starts and runs OK so far, but I do have quite a big oil leak down the back of the engine - Which I think is coming from the rocker cover as I could not do up the last bolt - (right in front of the EGR box.  It isn't coming from the turbo or any other place that I can see.  I need to take it off again anyway to re torque the head bolts so I will try and devise a way of getting it done up.

I also have struggled to get a clip for the off side drive shaft boot - I have the Polish conversion and the clip is non standard so for now I'll have to use a tie wrap - Not happy with that but I want to get the thing back on the road.

More as it happens.
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2015, 10:42:41 PM »
That wasn't the Exeter (Marsh Barton) Machine Mart was it by any chance?! Or did you order it online? If you get really stuck I might be able to get some sort of clip that'll do the job through my line of work.
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Offline JEREMYH

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2015, 09:09:57 AM »
Im not sure if your near Exeter but there is some talk about it in the last post !!! :-\

You may be able to get the drive shaft clip from Kennys car parts on Marsh Barton .

Its a small world I live in Cullompton . Thanks for sharing your step by step top end rebuild . Its nice to know what challenges are involved even when my car is not even the same engine 

Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2015, 09:14:24 AM »
No Insanitybeard I am in Bournemouth.   I'll keep looking.  But thank you very much for the offer

Thanks for the comments Jeremy.
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2015, 05:29:35 PM »
Im not sure if your near Exeter but there is some talk about it in the last post !!! :-\

You may be able to get the drive shaft clip from Kennys car parts on Marsh Barton .

Its a small world I live in Cullompton . Thanks for sharing your step by step top end rebuild . Its nice to know what challenges are involved even when my car is not even the same engine

I'm not sure if it's the same guy who still owns Kenny's but if it is I used to work with him when he worked at the then Evans Halshaw Ford garage (now Vospers!)

As for a top end rebuild, I reckon your VR6 engine would be more aggro than the TDI!
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2015, 11:06:42 PM »
Well after 6 mile gentle run everything seemed fine.  I decided to go to the shops when I felt a decided bump and the engine seized solid. I had to get towed home.  I hven'done any investigation as yet but I have feeling my engine is well & truly buggered.  I'll have a look tomorrow but I think I may be scrapping the old girl.  Watch this space!
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2015, 12:12:44 AM »
Shite. After all that work too!  :(
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2015, 11:13:15 AM »
Took out number one glow plug - bent.  So it must have dropped a valve.  I will assume that if I am lucky I can get away with just replacing the head?  But then I have to find a head!!

I'll think this one over for a while.
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2015, 06:36:19 PM »
I thinking of buying a second hand engine complete.- Has anyone removed the engine/gearbox complete before?  Does it come out via the top of down through the bottom?  I think down looks easier but I am not sure.
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2015, 06:58:42 PM »
Out from the bottom for sure I.M.O, that way you can leave the turbo, manifolds etc all in place and then drop  the whole lump complete. You may need to take the subframe down first though to ensure nothing snags or gets caught on the way out, though you may get away without removing it. I'm inclined to say lifting out through the top would be very difficult if not impossible, A) because of the overhanging windscreen and bulkhead design and B) because IIRC the gearbox mounting point on the chassis protrudes partly across the top of the gearbox and would be in the way if trying to lift the unit upwards.
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2015, 10:27:02 PM »
Thanks

I'll just need to find a good engine!
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2015, 03:01:14 PM »
Still looking.  The Haynes manual suggests that you can remove the engine etc. by removing the front of the car.  You do of course have to remove radiator and condenser etc. but that isn't a problem but will it work and is there any benefit?

Any ideas?
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2015, 07:44:29 PM »
If you're happy to remove the front panel (and therefore also the radiator, condenser, intercooler etc) and bumper then yes, it'll give you lots more room to work with. Also, if you're planning on leaving the car on the floor and don't have a ramp to lift it with then it'll make it easier as you won't have to worry about lifting the car up enough at the front end to give enough space to pull the engine/gearbox unit through from underneath once you've dropped it onto the deck, and if you're using an engine crane you'll be able to lower/ remove it in one go.

If you choose to go down this route, just bear in mind that due to the design of the vehicle/ front panel, you'll have to degas the air con (which you probably figured anyway in the course of removing the condenser!).
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2015, 09:57:24 PM »
Thanks Paul,   My air con has been out of action for more than a year so no issue with removing the condenser etc.  If I take the front bumper etc. off will that leave a clear space  - i.e. a gap in the front that I can pull the engine out of,  does it still have to come out from below?

I will hire an engine lift - I do have some serious stands that are good for 3 tons each so no issue with getting it into the air - well maybe with approx. 2' 6" of clearance.  I assume I would be able to tip it backwards to drag it out if it doesn't come out through the front.
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2015, 01:11:44 PM »
The clearest picture I have to demonstrate is with the radiator still installed but everything else removed. It should give you an idea anyway- if you take the front panel and bumper etc off, then with an engine crane, you should simply be able to take the weight of the engine, remove the mounts and then just pull the whole lot straight out (forward) with the crane, no additional lifting or jacking required.


3838-0


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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2015, 09:24:48 AM »
Brilliant Paul, that illustrates it perfectly.

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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2015, 01:43:00 PM »
Does anyone know whether the engine from an automatic would fit in the manual?  Is anything different about the crankshaft etc?
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Offline bigdave982

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2015, 06:26:39 PM »
Tradituonaly autos in general have different flywheel to bolt torque converter onto rather than clutch. Also sometime different camshaft profile, but that was before ecu's

Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2015, 08:59:31 PM »
Looking at the TIS under specs it shows no difference for the auto over the manual.
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2015, 12:14:53 AM »
I can't imagine there would be, like Dave says the auto would have a drive plate/ring gear for the torque converter to fit to instead of the dual mass flywheel fitted to the manual but the mountings for either into the end of the crank should be exactly the same.
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2015, 11:56:37 AM »
I received an e mail from a Ford dealer who I asked if I were to order an AUY engine would it make any difference whether it was Manual or auto - the answer was  .... none!

So as usual Mirez and you chaps were correct. Well I'll find out tomorrow as I have ordered the Auto engine off E bay and it should arrive tomorrow - so we'll see what happens then.
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2015, 01:06:44 PM »
Well the engine turned up on Tuesday - It had a lot of damage to various peripheral parts but the basic lump is fine. One question I do have - The replacement came off an Auto - and doesn't have the oil level indicator switch located in the sump.  I haven't looked properly yet but is that something I just have to swap over or will I have to swap the sumps?

 I have just finished transferring all of the bits from mine on to it - I just have to do the cam belt timing then put the gearbox back on and then the fun starts! it is so heavy to manoeuvre - I don't have an engine lift so am blocking it up to the correct height then will roll the car forward and hopefully all will be well.

I'll let you know how I get on. :P
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2015, 12:17:02 AM »
You'll need to swap the sump over if your old unit has the oil level sensor fitted but the new one doesn't, although both castings are basically the same the one with the sensor fitted has some extra machining (screw threads and sensor hole) which is absent on the version which is not fitted with a sensor.
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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2015, 04:27:46 PM »
Thanks Paul - I will change the sump over - I just need to remove all of the oil from the old one. Then I'll take it off.

I now have the engine in, my block platform worked a treat with a little jiggling with the jack.  I have all the electrical and water connections connections back in place - the only things left to do are drive shaft bolts to tighten - and then to bleed the clutch .

I say the only thing but I still need to put the front back on - but it is so easy having really easy access - so I will bleed the clutch before I put that back on.

Getting there - slowly!
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2015, 10:36:41 PM »
Clutch now bled - I used the reverse method - basically pumped fluid from the slave connector back through to the reservoir - definitely better than the traditional method.  If the weather holds I'll put the front back on and try firing it up! ???
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2015, 12:35:26 PM »
Everything all back together now. Engine started and running well. I now have lost most of my  gears - I must have moved the selector while moving the gear box.   I can only get 1st by going over to the reverse position - I cannot get 2nd or 3rd. Apart from that it drives well!!

Can anyone enlighten me as to how I get my gears back in the right place?
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Offline Mirez

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2015, 01:16:01 PM »
Re-align the gear-shift mechanism. There are youtube vids on it but the basics are to lock the selector lever (by removing the gaitor and inserting a nail in the lock holes), then you de-spring the couplers at the other end of the cables and then re-latch them.

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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2015, 02:45:19 PM »
Many thanks Mirez

It's a real pig to get my fat hands in to reach these bits now that everything is back ij place but I will persevere!!!!
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2015, 06:00:01 PM »
Well thanks to Mirez all is now as it should. I have all 6 forward and one reverse gear.  So far it seems like I have a successful transplant on my hands. The automatic engine that the guy sold me as only suitable for an automatic is working fine in my manual!!

I'll update you with any follow up. Hopefully there won't be any and I will have a quiet time with everything working well.

BJ :-\
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Offline bigdave982

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2015, 07:07:39 PM »
Good work that man

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2015, 08:20:17 PM »
Well done BJ  [GJ]
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Offline bigjeeze

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2015, 09:34:11 PM »
Thanks Chaps

There are two small faults that are probably linked - I have lost the temp sens and the parking sensors for the front - I must have missed a connector or two.

I didn't take any pictures bar two of the engine sitting on the wooden platform I made - There really wasn't much point  - but I will upload those soon for what it's worth.

BJ
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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #47 on: September 23, 2015, 03:53:49 PM »
Fixed the parking sensors and while I was doing that I realised I had forgotten to connect the fog lamps.

I haven't found the external temp sender - can anyone tell me where it is located please?


Cheers

BJ
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2015, 04:16:12 PM »
Here.

(centre of the image below the crash beam)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 04:17:41 PM by insanitybeard »
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Offline bigdave982

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Re: Head Gasket or ?
« Reply #49 on: September 23, 2015, 05:34:58 PM »
Theres one on the wiper linkage too

 

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