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Author Topic: Heated windscreen operation  (Read 12504 times)

Offline marinabrid

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Heated windscreen operation
« on: January 01, 2016, 07:21:33 PM »
Hi all and happy new year

Still cant work this heated front screen out
im sure its not working correctly as even when heavily misted up   no zebra lines appear when turned on

the rpm drops   the switch lights up,  there is 12v at the supply points under the trim near the front of the screen
If its showing power there,  then does this mean the power is going through the elements ?
or is there some other way to test it.

if the earth was faulty which is a bolt in the over head console   would it still drop the rpm and show power at the terminal ?   
Electrics  not my best subject  ::)
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Offline Mirez

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2016, 08:01:54 PM »
12V at the supply indicates that the screen is receiving a supply, that's all. But that means you can be fairly sure that fuses, relays and switches are working correctly.

From the sound of it then the circuit is in-tact and the system is drawing a significant current. If the earth is faulty then yes, you would still have 12V at the terminals (if using the same earth to test the 12V then it may fluctuate) but realistically, to drop the RPM requires a good draw. If its not going into the screen then its going somewhere else and that kind of load would generate a fair bit of heat. Try leaving it on and then feeling the supply wires, the terminals and the ground for any warming which would indicate resistance.
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Offline marinabrid

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2016, 06:55:11 PM »
Thanks for help,
Had some real frost.
Come to conclusion.  all heated screens are not the same
the one fitted by National takes a good few mins to start showing the zebra lines and then nothing like the original i had in.
By the time its worked the engine has warmed the heater a bit to help it.
Even the woman at National said,  they are all made by the same company.
Dont think so.
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Offline actionvin

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2016, 09:16:49 PM »
your right they are not, most of the big companies source from china or east europe
my brother fits them, he said if you need a new windscreen then ask for original they must supply, they will not offer so ask, they also give the excuse it will take an extra couple of days.

Offline marinabrid

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2016, 02:30:11 PM »
Hi
interesting that,  i asked at the time and was told that Tesco insurance wouldnt pay for genuine screens to be fitted so i had to accept it. Thats when she also said that as most screens were made by a few companies they were nearly all the same.
Think i shall call Tesco to see and report back. 
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Offline marinabrid

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2016, 11:59:50 AM »
Tesco say no   you have to have what they say  so i said  well insurance due now so i will elsewhere.
cold frosty today,  went to Shops, took 5 mins to get there and screen still misty on inside you could see the shape of the heater screen appearing by then around the edge so i know it working, but 10 mins in all for a so called quick clear screen really is crap.
The oe one was clear in about 3 mins.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 12:00:25 PM by marinabrid »
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Offline marinabrid

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2016, 03:00:45 PM »
Had a call today from National windscreens complaints office

weather this is BS or not heres what they said,
newer heated windscreens are made with much finer heater wires than the ones from years ago as many folk complained about seeing them,  so new tech has allowed finer elements that dont make zebra lines.   instead they clear the screen in a whole area but take longer to do it.

The chap said he had a fiesta with an oe screen and that took around 15 mins to clear.
They didnt import cheap chinese ones to use either when i asked about that, or so he said. that could be the truth or the company line.
Cleared it up somewhat but seems daft having one if the heater, well on petrol engines,   clears it faster with the fan heater from cold.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 03:02:08 PM by marinabrid »
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Offline mike wilson

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2016, 09:49:19 AM »
(Same number of)Finer wires = more resistance = _more_ heat.  Ergo, BS.

You could check the finer wires line of twaddle by comparing to a known original, older screen.

If not true, carry on complaining.

FWIW, I had a new screen last year and there is no difference between it and the old one.  I don't know if the old one was original either but both clear condensation in seconds to a few minutes.  Ice in two or three minutes.  My timer cuts the screen off in less than 15 minutes, I think.

Offline marinabrid

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2016, 11:21:22 PM »
Hi
the wires are def much much finer,  on the old screen the wife used to moan she could see them  more so if misty or foggy,    so that bit i think is true

The other thing you say,  if the wires are finer   would there be more of them   so as you say more resistant   more heat.

Hard to know whats right but may have another go,   went out tonight  all condensed up,   heater clears it faster than turning switch on, lucky i suppose its a gas guzzling petrol,   if a diesel i would no doubt be sat there longer.
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2016, 10:50:07 AM »
I have noticed that my heated front screen (which is original as it has the AE logo at the bottom corner) gets hot enough to melt frost etc on the outside within a few (e.g 2-3) minutes, but when large amounts of condensation form on the inside it can take much longer- but then it of course it requires much less physical heat to melt ice than it does to evaporate liquid water.
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Offline marinabrid

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2016, 06:20:44 PM »
a good thought there,
will try that one out,  we havn't had a proper frost yet all winter to properly test it and see what happens   so im waiting   may get some soon   but always a tad warmer on the coast.
Any one tried the rainx anti fog ?
just found these reviews,   most say its crap
http://reviews.halfords.com/4028/190512/reviews.htm
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 06:25:19 PM by marinabrid »
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Offline gregers

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2016, 08:38:06 PM »
turn your aircon on aswell,your be surprised how much that helps in demisting the screen.
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Offline marinabrid

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2016, 12:34:35 AM »
Hi
wondered about that,  did know that helped great deal with mk1 with manual air con  just press, how do you turn it on when its 3c outside, i thought it was automatic so how do you overide it as it wont use air con in winter will it,
or do you turn the temp down to low ?
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Offline SilverBeast

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2016, 12:00:12 AM »
Just press the demist setting on the climate control (top left windscreen icon), it should turn on the heated front screen and set it to blow on screen and I believe also uses the aircon too.

Mine had the screen replaced by the (one) previous owner.  It starts clearing within a few seconds.  It has wavy wires (not straight), though some have now started to fail!

Offline marinabrid

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2016, 10:02:55 AM »
Hi thanks for the info
hard the 1st real hard frost,  turned it on and  magic   the things defrosted the outer glass in a very short time, however the condensation inside was not cleared.  i remember the oe ford one  cleared that as well,   so maybe the wires are nearer the surface ?     will def try the windscreen switch then next time
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Offline mike wilson

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2016, 04:43:26 PM »
The other thing you say,  if the wires are finer   would there be more of them   so as you say more resistant   more heat.

Er, no.  Probably the best way to think about this is to imagine the wires as tubes and look at the cross-sectional area.

You have X tubes of y diameter, leading to z cross-sectional area total.

If you keep x but change y (same number of tubes but smaller diameter) you get a smaller z. 

Because you have a smaller z, you have higher resistance. 

If you now increase x (more tubes of the smaller diameter) you can get back to your original z.  Not even higher resistance. 

The only way you would get higher resistance in that circumstance would be if you tried to push more through them.  In our case, that would mean raising the voltage.

Hope that makes sense.

Offline antzatgalalxy

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2016, 01:09:52 PM »
I had my windscreen replaced recently and I noticed a difference. The wires in the screen are far less visible (they used to catch the sun) and it doesn't clear in the zebra fashion it used to, but as the whole screen. I think this is why it take s longer to "clear", because as soon as the zebra lines used to appear, you could "see" out (albeit through the zebra lines).

As an addition, the Air con doesn't operate below 7 (?) degrees. And this makes a big difference to the screen clear time.

Offline antzatgalalxy

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2016, 01:23:30 PM »
You should note I have a diesel, electric heated front windscreen is essential as even with auxiliary heater it take a while for engine to warm up and help out. With wet kids in and out the car all the time, the water all seems to end up on the windscreen in the morning...

I did find that even cleaning the windscreen with any window cleaner did make a minor difference to clearing time, a minor one... I keep a micro fibre cloth in the door pocket for when I just can't wait....

Offline mike wilson

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2016, 10:12:37 AM »
I had my windscreen replaced recently and I noticed a difference. The wires in the screen are far less visible (they used to catch the sun) and it doesn't clear in the zebra fashion it used to, but as the whole screen. I think this is why it take s longer to "clear", because as soon as the zebra lines used to appear, you could "see" out (albeit through the zebra lines).

My impression of the visibility of the lines, going from a 98 model vehicle to a 58 one, was that the surface treatment of the wires had changed, to make them less visible.  Or it may be that the plastic, inner part of the windscreen sandwich has changed.  The zebra effect is due to failed lines rather than an intrinsic feature of the screen.

Offline antzatgalalxy

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2016, 02:40:00 PM »
I am of course only comparing the original screens fitted to a MK2 and the replacement.

On the old screen the wires were a very regular zig zag shape (distance between vertices in any one wire) and were extremely regularly and visibly spaced (apart from one gap in the centre). Close inspection of the new screen and they seem to be more haphazardly laid down, with the zig zag shapes themselves not so regular (some seem elongated and not even consistent even in a single wire) and so the spacing between the wires (closest point of the vertices of neighbouring zigzaging wires) is also not consistent. But they are definitely finer and I can only opinion-ate (as I'm not going to count them) that there seems to be more of them (which might account for why this haphazard lay out does not seem to have too much effect). The vertical demisting Zebra pattern I got before on the old screen was not due to failed wires, but the spacing between wires. As an extreme there was one part right in the centre of the screen where for some reason the was a larger gap between two of the wires.

Can't say anything about the Mk 3 Screen I'm afraid.

Offline mike wilson

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2016, 10:39:29 AM »
Tha gap in the middle is because the screen is electrically split into two parts.  Every screen I know does that, some less than others.

Never known zebra stripes from other than failed lines but all my screen have been OEM or OEM replacements.  None of the ones I have been intimately familiar with have, however, been on Galaxys.  I wonder if the bigger screen is the cause?  To keep the same current requirements you would need the same number of wires.  On a bigger screen, they would need to be spread out more.

Hiring a Galaxy next weekend, so will be able to compare between that and Mondeo and Focus.

Offline gregers

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2016, 08:57:15 PM »
mine worked fine on my smax when i 1st got it,then after a few years started the bar code effect,now ZILCH NADDER NOWT.
common problem on the smax/mk3.
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Online johnnyroper

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2016, 07:32:42 PM »
Mine has the original screen and I have not noticed the zebra stripes either,it seems to give a nice even warm up with no visible lines apart from the spaces either side and in middle where no wires.
I will however be having a new screen soon due to cracked so will see what replacement is like in comparison

Offline bestfc01

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Re: Heated windscreen operation
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2016, 11:25:32 AM »
Don't know if this is now resolved, but thought i'd add my two pence worth.

Mine has the original screen and I have not noticed the zebra stripes unless i look extremely hard. When I can see them, its generally with very low visibility.

When we had the icy period the screen would take about 2 minutes to completely defrost. Perfect time for me to have a spoke (don't smoke in the car  :D)
Thats both front and rear in about 2 minutes. This seems a lot quicker than me 57 plate focus did.

I have however noticed it can take up to 5 minutes if i simply just press the front screen switch and like other people have said, the engine has typically warmed up by then.

As mine has the dual climate control, I find jumping in and pressing the demister button on the climate control turns the fan speed to about half (sometime full depending on how cold it is), then it also turns the front screen on.
So if you have the digital climate control, it might be worth trying it that way.

I also noticed that when i originally brought the car and the front windows got misted up, when pressing the demister it would also turn on the front screen. After a few seconds the car was demisted even with a cold engine.
However after a month or so, i found that the front screen never turned on anymore when demisting the car and it took ages and using a windscreen cloth was required.

However, this turned out to be a faulty sensor behind the clock. 3 from the scrap yard all working again.

I don't know how relevant that would be with the analogue heating controls.



 

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