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Author Topic: Heater control panel not working  (Read 2018 times)

Offline po79

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Heater control panel not working
« on: September 11, 2018, 11:50:21 AM »

Hi all,
Just picked up a cheap Alhambra as my daily drive failed its MOT.
The cars heater control panel isn't working,  the only thing working is the blower (all speeds).
I have checked the fuses and all ok, I have disconnected the connections to the panel turned the ignition on and off again then reconnected in order to reset the panel but this didn't work.
The other thing is that the EML is on tried my OBD11 and it won't connect,  apparently this is on the same circuit as the control panel/same fuse (32?).
I have started looking at the wiring loom in the boot gator and a few wires have cracked insulation but the wires aren't broken however I did find one ticket black wire that has snapped.
Could this write be the cause of the heater panel issue and overtone know what this wire serves.
Cheers,
Poe

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2018, 02:02:51 PM »
Thereís also a splice of wires passenger side which are fuse 32 powered,been known to suffer corrosion in past. Have a look in ref library for a guide on accessing

Offline po79

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2018, 03:06:18 PM »

Thanks Jonny,
I've read about that and apparently there is one one the drives side to.
Are there any relays I should be looking to check?
Cheers,
Poe.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2018, 05:06:23 PM »
There will be relay/relays that energise when key is switched on to power stuff up assume heater panel will be powered by one. No idea which ones though but have a look in ref library as there is some info on fuses/relays.

Offline po79

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2018, 05:13:50 PM »

Ok, I'll take look, understanding wiring diagrams isn't a strong point.
I've just checked the passengers side solve and it looks in perfect condition.  It was wet to from the rear washer pipe leaking which is now back together.
Should I do a rest by taking the battery of four 30mins each time I rectify a connection? I'm guessing I would need to re sync the key fob afterwards buy the PATS system should be unaffected.
Cheers,
Poe

Offline po79

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2018, 05:29:33 PM »

Just tried to upload a couple photos.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2018, 05:37:24 PM »
I would disconnect battery and repair the damaged wires in tailgate as they look like they could be shorting across circuits with that damage.
Once all repaired double check fuses and put battery back on.

Offline po79

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2018, 05:39:02 PM »
One at a time then.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2018, 05:47:22 PM »
One at a time then.

Hard to tell from picture but is that splice a bit dodgy looking?

Offline brianh

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2018, 05:48:41 PM »
The leaking washer (a common issue, along with your wires) is usually what causes the splice to corrode as its on the same side.

The black cable in the boot should be (if the wiring diagram is correct) the ground for the heated rear window. At a minimum for now you need to put some tape round the broken bits of wire and rejoin that one back up, ideally they need repairing properly by soldering in new bits of cable.

Which type of heating is it? The climate control one with the buttons, or the one with dials? Also what year is it?

Offline brianh

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2018, 05:50:30 PM »
I'd run some solder onto that splice as well - your post of the photo crossed with mine. You'd be best to repair the boot ones while your there and see what then happens (they will only cause grief otherwise)

Offline po79

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2018, 07:38:26 PM »

Thanks guys,
Yeah I'll be repairing all the cables in the boot loom and any others that I come across but the passengers side splice looks factory fresh to me and I feel more inclined to leave it as is for now.
My multimeter is broke so need to get another asap.
Its a 2001 model with dial/knobs on the control unit.
I forgot to say the rear passenger heater and fan isn't working either.
Johnj.

Offline po79

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2018, 07:45:55 PM »

Thanks guys,
Yeah I'll be repairing all the cables in the boot loom and any others that I come across but the passengers side splice looks factory fresh to me and I feel more inclined to leave it as is for now.
My multimeter is broke so need to get another asap.
Its a 2001 model with dial/knobs on the control unit.
I forgot to say the rear passenger heater and fan isn't working either.
Johnj.

Offline brianh

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2018, 10:36:03 PM »
I don't think you can get the diagnosics to speak to that system as far as I'm aware. My mk2 has the climate control system so that isn't a good comparison anyway. Based on my mk1 The rear heater should have some controls up above the rear door on the passenger side, those won't do anything unless the isolator on the dash is switched on. That shouldn't make any difference to the front one though. I think the mk1 from memory is all cable based (like bike brake cables). No idea on the mk2 and you can see it so would suspect its more electrical in nature. I take it you can't either direct the airflow or change the temp setting as it is?

Does it have the original stereo or an aftermarket one? If its aftermarket try removing that (just unplug it) and try your diagnostics again for the engine. Being a 2001 it should speak to an obd reader, but I can't confirm if it will. Some aftermarket stereos upset the diagnostics on vehicles so that would be a good starting point. It may also be that the diagnostics work, but your reader doesn't use the required protocal (the Ford ones use a specific one, the Seat ones are different but may be another odd one)

If it doesn't it might be worth getting hold of a cheap vcds lite lead (they can be had off ebay for around £5-10) and use vcds lite from Ross tech (free download) as that should definitely talk to it, you just need a laptop to run the software on then.

Is there any signs of liquid damage to the heater panel? It sits in a stupid location right below the cup holders to absorb any spills. I take it yours looks like this > https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEAT-ALHAMBRA-FORD-GALAXY-A-C-HEATER-CONTROL-PANEL-SWITCH-YM2119980AC-2000-2004/323427322021

Offline po79

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2018, 09:19:07 PM »

Hi Brian,
I wasn't aware there was an isolator on the dash to turn the rear heater off and on.
The OBD plug had the right pins for a CAN system which my tester should work with but I'll try that lead and program you suggest.
Your right with the link that's the unit I have I actually saw that one on the #bay and for the price considered getting it.
And your right I don't have temp control or directional control.
There is no radio in the car but the plugs have been cut off at some point and re attached not great but all colours match and connections taped so shouldn't cause an issue.
Not going to get much time to look at the car not for a few days but will be back to let you know what if any progress I make.
Cheers
Poe.

Offline brianh

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2018, 10:16:03 PM »
It might be worth having a look at the plumbing side of the front matrix - its relatively aceessible from the scuttle area, make sure someone hasn't looped the pipework to stop a leak in the heater matrix etc.

Might be worth checking the following fuses - all are marked vaguely as aircon in Haynes manual

F16 15A
F21 25A
F22 30A
Blower is separate on F33, can't see a circuit diagram for the flaps etc there, just the blower motor and resistor pack.

Does the rear one work now? Isolator is there to provide some control over it as you obviously don't always want the back seat passengers playing with it, the climate control type system all does it from the one panel anyway.

I'd give VCDS a try if you get chance to do so - it will do the other systems on the car as well so its useful to have (airbags for example being one its commonly needed for)

Offline po79

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2018, 07:54:45 PM »

Ok so today I picked up a new multimeter and had 20 mins to work on the car.
All the fuses have already been checked so I've not rechecked them and found that the rear heater isolator is on the control panel so that is effected by the control panel problem
I took out the panel and checked the power to the plugs and found the plug behind the air direction control knob had 12v supply, the blower is working fine so didn't check that plug and the one behind the temp control had a 12v supply on the white and red cable, this had lots of cables in it 15 or more but as I don't have a owners book or wiring diagram wouldn't know what i was checking.
Im only guessing that the plug behind the air direction control powers that function and the plug with lots of wires behind the temp control works this knob and also the AC, rear heater isolator and air recirculation.
With power at the plugs it maybe looking like the panel itself is at fault but not knowing what out puts to check on which wires  I'm not sure what to think.
Poe.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2018, 10:29:44 PM »
Did you have good earth to the panel?
If so I would say the panel is kaput if live and earth in but itís not doing anything.
Ideally you need a wiring diagram to check it out properly though

Offline po79

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2018, 09:10:43 AM »

I looked for a haynes manual for the Alhambra but doesnt look like they do one for car or the Sharan just the Ford Galaxy.
Are these cars that identical that I could use the Haynes Galaxy book?
I believe the ground is good but I could add extra ground wires in just to boost the earth strength to test the panel.
Looks like the panel can be taken apart, I would need to get my little torx bits from the loft but ii might open the panel and see if there is anything obvious in there, maybe as Brian suggested drinks have been spoilt and a good clean might be needed.
Poe.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2018, 09:12:53 AM »
Yes you could use the galaxy book as the cars are pretty much identical itís mainly cosmetic differences with exception of immobiliser and petrol engines.

Offline po79

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2018, 05:08:42 PM »

Hi all,
Still no further, the two wires in the plug behind the direction control are just power feeds 12v and 5v.
I was expecting one to be a ground/earth.
So all the wires in the plug behind the temp control are feeds out.
Should there be an earth?
Nowhere local have a manual in stock so going to order online as it'll be quicker.
Any chance someone on here has a wiring diagram for the control panel they could send me just to get me through until I get the manual?
I've check on here and done a google search but no luck.
Cheers,
Poe.

Offline brianh

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2018, 06:38:15 PM »
There isn't any info on the wiring that i can see in the mk2 haynes manual for those controls, only the blower motor side. I will find those bits later on tonight and post them if I get chance.

Might be more on TIS - again if I get chance will post what looks helpful there.

Offline po79

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2018, 08:51:17 PM »

Thanks Brian,
Whats TIS?
Thats a surprise Haynes dont have any info on it. I guess thats why I'm sibling to find any thing on Google.
I took the panel apart and conected the plugs there is power in the circuits and the knobs seem to power up and down when turned but I can then check where the power goes knowing the out put wires would be a great help.
I admit I'm really not very good with electrics so all the help I am getting is great.
Poe.

Offline brianh

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2018, 10:33:21 PM »
Tis is the Ford workshop cd (now superceeded by Etis, but you have to pay to access that). Its very out of date now, but then the Galaxy mk2 has been out of production for 12 years so not much has changed thats relevant.

This is all thats in Haynes relevant to the switch - the bits of yours that works.

Does the rear blower work now?

Offline brianh

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2018, 11:07:36 PM »
This might help - this is what i can "print" off TIS. The formatting is horrible, can't do anything about that. As far as i can tell your module is what does the actual controlling of the motors, so if there is nothing coming out when you move the selector about its probably the module.

TBH for the £16 for another control module I'd try that before messing too much with it - As said above, the siting of the controls is downright stupid so its very possible a previous owner has given them a drink, and if thats the case it may not be as simple as cleaning the remaining liquid out. You can always stick the controller back on eBay if it doesn't fix the problem to get your money back that way?

Offline brianh

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2018, 11:21:04 PM »
Note also I can't confirm which version of the diagram is relevant to your particular model, though its not the ones marked ATC as these would be the buttons with automatic control. Given that TIS only covers Ford, the petrol Alhambra may not be exactly the same, though i'd expect it to be fairly similar to the 2.3/2.0 petrol if not identical.

Offline po79

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2018, 01:37:50 PM »

Cheers Brian,
Not sure if I can understand those diagrams. I'll have to have a good look at them tonight.
I have contacted the sellers on the 'Bay but even the ones who state in their ads "fully tested" when I have messaged them and asked specifically if each of the controls and lights on the panels work they just say "it was taken out of a working car but we've not fully tested it".
The insides of my panel are clean, once I work out what each of the out going cables do I can check it whist operating the controls to find if its functioning.
Poe.

Offline brianh

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2018, 12:49:18 AM »
The diagrams when you look at TIS seem to show the panel is just directly connected to the motors for each control, Given you've lost all flap movement that suggests its not the motors at fault, more likely the panel or supply to it. There is colours for each wire with where its connected to on there, if you can't see them post a message back and I will see if i can screenshot the bits that appeared useful. Though as said above, I can only go off the Ford diagrams so if anything is specific to the petrol Seat Alhambra it may not appear on the Ford info.

Offline po79

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2018, 02:50:35 PM »

Right I'm back.
Been very busy so only got time earlier today to look at the car again,  the Haynes manual never turned up but they offered a mk1 manual instead, guessing this would be pretty much the same?
Also the multimeter was faulty and had to be exchanged.

I have replaced the control panel with not change.

Anyway after looking over the diagrams Brian put up and testing I have found that cable 11 brown and cable 27 brown and yellow (brown on the diagram) on the main multi pin plug for the controller that if I have understood things right should both be earth cables become 12v live when the headlights are turned on, this is with the plug not plugged into the controller.

I'm guessing this is indicating a fault with the headlight circuit or the earth's.

Anyone know where I should start looking first?

I also got my OBD2 to link with the car and it's showing fault codes P0036, P0140 and P0141 all I think are the rear O2 lambda sensor. Should I replace the sensor or are there other known faults I should look at first.

Many thanks in advance.

Offline brianh

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #29 on: September 30, 2018, 09:21:42 PM »
For the heater the mk1 manual will be pretty useless.

I'd start looking in the rear righthand gaiter on the boot (open the boot and look near the hinge, the cables all run through the rubber boot). I'd guess your likely to find broken wires there and the tail lights are shorting out somehow to get back to the heater panel. It may be that one of those wires is actually to illuminate the panel.

I will have a look at TIS to check if theres anything extra to add.

Yes those 3 codes point to the sensor after the cat, its worth having a look just to check its not damaged wiring before you go for a new sensor, that one may bring the engine light on, but shouldn't effect running (its only there to monitor the cat)

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2018, 09:35:08 PM »
What build year or reg year (preferably build year) is your Alhambara?

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2018, 10:06:43 PM »

Hi Brian,
I sorted out the wires in the boot gaiter at the start as it was one of the first things sugested but that didn't have any effect.
As for the year of build I'm not sure yhe first registration was 2001 however one insurance company said it was a 2000 model.
I'm glad you said the mk1 manual will be usless I'll just get a refund and order another one.
The cat sensor doesn't seem to have any effect although it does seem to use more fuel than expected and slight misfire when under exceleration.
Iwish I could afford an to get an auto electrician to take a look as this is frustrating with my limited knowledge but really greatful for the help I'm getting.
Poe.

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2018, 11:01:05 PM »
Ignore that, I see above its 2001 couldn't see it on the first look. Suggest if the boot wiring doesn't show up anything odd that you check the ground points, specifically the ones in the boot on the lefthand side (shared by the rear lights and the rear heater, you will find it inside the panel you remove to replace the bulbs in the lefthand cluster) shown as G8 on the diagram, This is your brown wire on pin 11 of the connector.

I'd also have a look round the area closer to the control module to see if there is another ground point there, theres definitely ones either side in the front footwell areas, might be one in the middle of the dash area as well.

I think the other one is more likely pin 22 as it appears to be on the other side of the connector to the brown cable,on the same side as pin 32 which is the red and white cable. I can't find what this is supposed to do, but would suspect this is the one for the panel to light up. (I can't trace it in TIS either by pin number or colour). Does the panel backlighting come on with the lights? and how are you seeing 12v on the two wires? (where are you putting the other lead on the meter to?)

Equally given you already have checked the rear hatch wires, the wrong bulbs can cause problems as can corroded cluster contacts. It might be worth unplugging both rear clusters (you can do this from inside by removing the small panels near the boot) and seeing if you get any difference. Though if it was down to that i'd expect you to also see other issues.

If your panel matches the one linked it would be an early mk2, the mk1 is quite different to look at.

Did you check the rest of the doors while you were fixing the boot? Since every door if you have electric windows will have bits illuminated any of them might cause the same problem?

« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 11:03:25 PM by brianh »

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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2018, 11:08:35 PM »
On the fuel front, if your reader shows live data does the front lambda sensor show a fluctuating reading? Your misfire might be a coil pack breaking down (not sure what the Alhambara uses but I suspect from what others have said some of the early ones still had a distributor cap, never seen one to tell though as the Seat/VW petrols are a VW engine completely different to the Ford ones) or showing that it needs a plug/lead change (if it uses HT leads like the Ford 2.0/2.3 does).

Since you know the sensor is showing a fault and its a heater fault, theres certainly a problem there, or at least has been. The other thing to recommend is clear the codes and monitor it, as they may be from an error someone has already fixed previously but not cleared codes from, or someone unplugging the sensor for some reason etc.

Also to be fair, the Ford petrols are not economical - round town mine struggles to get above 20mpg, best I've seen the readout show is mid 30s. But given its around 1.8 tonnes its not likely to be particularly economical on fuel.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 11:10:22 PM by brianh »

Offline po79

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  • Model: Alhambra Mk2
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  • First Name: Poe
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Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2018, 03:36:37 PM »

SOLVED!!

I finally found the problem, it was an earth cable that someone had removed and not reconnected.
Standing at the back of the car, inside the boot to the left on the door/boot card there is a removable vented panel, remove this panel and just inside there is an earth point with two brown earth cables going to it.
One of mine had been removed and not put back on but they must have noticed and instead of taking the nut back off again they pushed to loose cable behind the plastic washer(?) most likely thinking this would effect an earth but as the metal work is painted and the earth washer is plastic no earth was made.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Po79.

Offline brianh

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  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: Heater control panel not working
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2018, 07:41:59 PM »
That would explain it, sometimes those are the worst type of faults to find (ones created by someone else doing something incorrectly).

Thats the G8 point i mentioned above, theres a load of them round the car.

 

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