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Author Topic: It's died and will not start  (Read 6325 times)

Offline Mark Vardy

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It's died and will not start
« on: July 16, 2017, 10:32:23 AM »
Hi,I was driving yesterday and lost all power from the engine and it sounded like a bag of spanners,then it just died,it will turn over slowly but won't start,the oil level has gone right down past the low level guide and the water has gone from the inspection ball,what are the thoughts that spring to mind as to what's maybe gone,head gasket or some sort of shaft maybe?
Would it be worth even finding out or just send it to galaxy heaven.

Offline Chrispb

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2017, 11:58:11 AM »
If the engine was running fine before the loss of power and noises it would sound like the engine timing has been lost, this could be just simply the timing belt has snapped or a tensioner/idler issue.
Either would cause major engine damage.
firstly remove the upper timing belt cover to get a glimpse of the belt.

Have a look at the link below for more info on the belt and timing.


https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/ford-galaxy-mk2-1-9-tdi-(pd)-timing-belt-kit-water-pump-replacement/msg9248/#msg9248
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
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Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2017, 12:46:50 PM »
Thank you Chris,
Iv taken the cover off and the belt is fine,Iv pulled the belt and it's all tight.

Offline KingyMAK

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2017, 12:56:22 PM »
What did the exhaust do when you lost power?
Any smoking/colours from it?
Has it been well maintained? Do you check oil and water regularly?

Warping isn't uncommon if it's ran dry/overheated.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2017, 01:49:56 PM »
Can you rotate engine by hand? Try jacking drivers side up and put in gear then turn wheel. Ideally with top belt cover off so You can make sure it does a couple of full rotations without issue.

Also don't assume it is still timed ok because belt feels tight it could have had tensioner fault jumped teeth and all slack is at rear.
Have you got any external fluid loss visible as it is not in heard of for a rod to come out of the block.

If above checks out I would whip rocker cover off to check all injector bolts,rocker shaft bolts are still in place. And while it's off give a quick crank with injector harness disconnected to make sure you have oil coming up as pump could have failed also.

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2017, 04:08:35 PM »
Kings I didn't notice anything coming out the exhaust and I was on a duel carriageway so looked to see if a car was behind be,
I can't say if it's been well maintained by the previous owner but it doesn't use oil and i had the rediator replaced about 2 moths ago and after that it used no water, it's odd that no warning lights came on or stay on when I put the ignition on,

Jonny unfortunatly I had to have it toe'd back to my house and have minimal tools,Iv had a chat with the chap that fixes it and I think im just going to bite the bullet and get a new(second hand)engine from a breakers,
First quote for a compleat engine is £360 delivered with a years warrenty,I'm guessing it could easy creep up to that cost finding the problem,fingers crossed it will be resolved soon

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2017, 04:27:50 PM »
Having recently purchased a used engine I reckon you can get hold of a ASZ engine cheaper than that. It does not have to be out of a galaxy. I saw them around the £200 mark when I was looking although that is bare engine so ancillieries would need swapping over. One thing I would say as you don't know the history of a replacement have new timing belt kit and water pump put on before it is fitted and then do oil and filter change.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2017, 04:30:35 PM »

Offline KingyMAK

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2017, 06:44:51 PM »
You could pickup an ASZ lump for easy £100; but having a years warranty on a second hand engine is always an advantage.
But £360 for it just delivered? Seems a little steep unless it's got a very good history and low mileage.

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2017, 08:44:28 PM »
I'm really not confident enough to order the ASZ option and know what I'm getting and know if it's coming with everything to just drop in,the same with getting an eBay one,Iv messaged to find out the mileage and Iv also gone for the complete option rather than bare and asked what that includes,I just hedging my bets that I'll have spare usable bits incase something needs replacing at a later date,
Thanks for all the help time and advice as always,I'll keep you posted as I go.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2017, 10:37:39 PM »
Is the engine you have located an ASZ as that's what your car will have,if it's anything else it may not be a bolt straight in job as pipes etc could be different.
If you want drop straight in then make sure it's ASZ, but even then there will probably be bits to swap if it didn't originate from a sharan,galaxy Alhambra.

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2017, 11:22:29 PM »
FORD GALAXY GHIA TDDI
Year: 2004 Plate: FN04NPX   
1896CC | 6 SP MAN | DIESEL | MPV
Ref: BL3263871 Date/Time: Sun 16th Jul 2017 14:46

That's on the header from the reply email,I put my reg into a site that breaker yards have access to,they see what you need and if they have what your looking for they contact you,
It's called breakerslink

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2017, 03:13:21 PM »
Ok so a bit of an update,I called the RAC out to get it taken to the mechanic,I said the problem happened as I came down my road,he turned the engine over,looked at the cam belt,got me to turn it over twice,he said it's the came belt,it's stripped teeth,that's why it still felt tight,so now just need to see what the damage is and if it's repair or replace the engine still.
You guys sure do know your stuff 👌🏼

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2017, 05:25:07 PM »
First things first time up by hand and try a belt kit you might be lucky,if not it will need a new belt anyway as it will be cheaper to repair than change engine.

If you need a good head then I have one in my garage it would just need camshaft swapping over as the sprocket is atd one and not ASZ.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2017, 05:26:15 PM »
Oh and injectors swapping as they are the lower HP ones up to 115bhp

Offline KingyMAK

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2017, 11:51:04 PM »
That's the beauty of the PD engines and it rarely causes bottom end block damage when the belts go.
Replace the head and it's absolutely fine.

It's a fairly easy job, too, but it all depends on how confident you feel about doing it, also.

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2017, 08:20:35 PM »
Thank you for the kind offer Jonny but Iv ordered the engine and a full service kit for it,the engine has done just over 60k so thought it best to be safe than sorry,

KingyMAK I think in going to see what's survived and put it on the bay to get some penny's back,Iv got no skill never mind confidence,

The chap started to strip the old engine out today and I did notice quite a bit of oil in the turbo pipe near the radiator end,what's that a sign of?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2017, 08:43:43 AM »
Having oil in the intercooler pipe on PD cars is fairly normal due to the breather set up,having said that if there was excessive smoke from the exhaust or there was litres of the stuff coming out of pipe and you were forever topping the level up then there is an issue?

If it's just belt gone you could well get a few quid back from selling bits on eBay.

Offline Chrispb

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2017, 01:38:37 PM »
Mark can you post some pics of the damaged belt and possible tensioner and any other engine damage (only if your going to strip it down) it can be interesting for other members to see results of what happens when belt breaks.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2017, 11:28:27 PM »
Jonny I had no smoke only slight grey/black at high revs and it used very little oil,I'm really to attempt to refurbish the engine as a project to learn,even if I never use it,be a real chalange.

Hi Chris,unfortunately the belt has been bind,but basically it stripped about 5 teeth off,it does look like it almost lost one tooth off the belt so thinking it maybe jumped then stripped when the interference happened,
The new(second hand)engine arrived today,looks ok,some hard black deposit around what I think is the AGR/EGR valve so will be cleaning that and running through it when servicing it,we are going to have to take the front off the car to get the engine out as dropping the subframe isn't an option,is it possible to tilt the engine to slide it of the gearbox shaft or does the gearbox need to come out with the engine?

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2017, 10:04:07 PM »
A bit more progress yesterday and today,we finally got the old engine out having taken the front of the car off as we are working off the ground,stripped all the pipes and kit we don't need off the replacement as i recently had a new alternater and my AC pump is ok,I'm going to keep the kit as spares,the breakers  just cut the pipes off rather than remove them,we have replaced some with my original ones as some were split on the replacement engine,just waiting on the timing setup kit to arrive to make 100% sure we are spot on,we did eye ball it,everything looked ok but it just kept throwing the marker in the gearbox window out by maybe 5mm,so rather than keep messing about we will wait,we changed the oil filter and as I undid the sump plug bolt something didn't feel right,basically they have drained the oil and then we think done the bolt up with an impact drive and stripped the threads in the sump,so then we had to replace the sump with the one of the original engine,oddly the replacement engine sump has what we think is an oil low sensor in the bottom but the original engine doesn't have one,the replacement engine has VW and AUDI on it,we called it a day with just the timing to nail down and the auxiliaries to put back on,hopefully that will get sorted tomorrow,engine back in on Tuesday and fingers crossed started Wednesday,has anyone had any error codes pop up after an engine refit and if so is it a garage plug in job to reset them?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2017, 11:05:21 PM »
In theory if everything is fine you shouldn't get any errors pop up,the oil level sensor is fitted to golfs etc so engine may have come from one of them?
So long as it fits and works that's all that matters though. Fingers crossed you get it in and can enjoy just driving it again.

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2017, 12:23:03 AM »
Yeah and I'm back enjoying driving it again👍🏼 No faults came up,a few little probs,i can smell wet diesel as in not exhaust fumes and the egr or which ever one it has fitted above the turbo is leaking wet dripping stuff and the chap that did up instead of undo has stripped the lower mount screw that goes into the gearbox and i think it's new starting to vibrate,not sure what to do with it yet,I'm giving it 1000k before I give her a (good) mild thrashing,but fingers crossed that's it for now lol

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2017, 07:09:34 AM »
Have a check round the tandem pump as that's a common area for slight fuel leaks.

It's not uncommon for oil to leak out the vent hole on egr valve,Can you swap the EGR from your original engine?

If the lower mount bolt has been stripped in gearbox I would get that sorted ASAP as it will get worse and could end up with a lot of movement in engine which then causes fractured air con pipes aswell as other issues. Sounds like it needs drilling out slightly bigger and a helicoil fitting.

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2017, 07:29:42 PM »
Thanks johnny Iv had a look and a feel and it's wet where the bottom pipe is attached,we couldn't get the original clip on so put a lightweight jubilee clip on so I'll look to replace that with an original on,I'm hoping if I take my time the drill and helicoil I can do in place rather than have to take the gearbox off.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2017, 07:53:05 PM »
Sounds like that's where leak is coming from then hopefully a decent clip will sort it out.

I cannot recall where bolts go on galaxy box but if it's like the Audi/golf ones the 2 bolts point down and are easy to get at? If so shouldn't be too difficult to drill out just go steady as you don't want to go too far and pierce the casing. If memory serves you will need m12 helicoil kit,not sure it is recommended but I usually thread lock them in to prevent coming out if you need to remove bolt again in future.

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2017, 09:42:17 PM »
Yeah hopefully it's just the rubbish clip,

Ah that's good news if the hole has a bottom and not just open into the gear box,I'll see what we have at work as we do have helicoil but not sure any are that big,Iv also noticed a fair bit of oil around the oil filler neck where it goes into the engine cover,it moves quite a bit left to right,does it pop of and have a replaceable seal?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2017, 06:50:25 AM »
Yes it has a seal just like the cap,as a temp measure you could just take it off like you do the filler cap and put the cap straight on to the rocker cover.

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2017, 07:41:38 PM »
Ah ok,does it just pull off or do you twist it till it pops off,
Also I was thinking about it and it's the lower engine mount where it attaches to the sub frame that stripped,Iv not had a chance to see yet as it's been raining like no ones business all day and had planed on taking a look,hopefully I can just re drill a slightly bigger hole and match a bigger bolt to tap out a new thread,Iv also ordered some more fuel Line clips,I'm also hopefully getting the engine properly tuned and a work mates son in law works for a car tuning company,I'm not after flames or chips lol just to make sure everything is as it should be and running sweet.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2017, 08:11:52 PM »
It just twists quarter turn exactly same as the filler cap.

Oh right it's subframe side of mount then,in that case you might be able to use a longer bolt with a washer and nylon nut instead of drilling and tapping etc. Can't reacall if you can get to top of it? If it's a cage nut just knock it off with chisel and replace with standard.

So you looking at having a remap done to it then?

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2017, 10:17:31 PM »
Brilliant thanks I'll take it off and replace it with the one off the original engine as that one was fine,
Ah yeah good thinking hopefully I can utalize a longer bolt and locking nut,
No not re mapped as I'm sure that will mean changing other bits and I'm happy with the power as it is,I just want it looking at to make sure it's running as it should and the timining is set to the optimum setting as I think it's a bit retarded at the mow.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2017, 11:15:16 PM »
Luckily the torsion value (timing) is fairly easy to adjust if they have vcds just make sure they check the mechanical timing is spot on with locking pins first.
I wrote a guide about torsion value in red library,it's all about finding that happy medium where that's concerned as too far advanced and it will burn more fuel and be less gutsy top end where as retarded slower pick up but more punch top end.

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2017, 07:39:24 AM »
The main reason I want it looking at is I'm sure when the timing was done it was left with the top adjustable cog all the way over to one side,all the ones Iv seen and the one that's on the old engine they are set to the middle,I'm just worried as this engine does seem to ping a bit,would this adjustment change that if it's the piston just pining on the valve?the MPH has gone down a bit so maybe it's to advanced,only reason I thought it was retarded is it feels like it's got more lag when the throttle is pressed.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2017, 08:02:43 AM »
Yes that could cause the problem you are having,when I was playing about with mine the slightest adjustment on cam sprocket made quite a difference to the running and performance.

If the mechanical timing is fine and locking pins go in at TDC then you can go one end of slot to the other and valve will not impact a piston.

It's easy to adjust it yourself,just crack the 3 13mm head bolts and then turn camshaft using 18mm spanner,tighten the 13mm up to 25nm I think? Put to mid way on slots and see how it runs.

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2017, 07:31:10 PM »
Thanks again jonny for all the info,do you have a link to the artical you wrote about on the subject,I'd love to give it a read,
Iv had a call from the guy who's son in law works at the tuning place and he said he will need to plug it in to see how it's running and to show how it's meant to be running which will be an hours labour,about £60 he said and I think well worth it in the long run.

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Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2017, 08:22:39 PM »
Thanks again,I'll let them know what you found and the measurements they are looking for.

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2017, 01:40:16 PM »
I managed to have a quick look today at home,I say quick  but having to make do with what little tools I have made it a lot longer lol,I took the undertray off and the stripped lower bolt had undone its self and was just being held in by the undertray,I managed to be able to undo it all the way out by hand,what suprized me is the bolt is a good 4/5 inches long with a thread the whole length yet when I took it out it was only the last 3/4 threads that were filed with what must be threads from the gear box,and yes it does go into the gear box,it's the solid kinked bracket we took off rather than the rubber part off the subframe,I'm struggling with the helicoil option as it's very exspence and going to be a one off job,
The diesel leak,again Iv not got the tools, I took the pipe off with the air flow sensor off to get a bit more room,I really needed to take of the fuel filter to see properly but unable to,but I think it's the pipe the conects to that black plastic part that's attached just under the fuel tandem pump,unless it's the seal on the pump that's gone and it's leaking in that pipe as it looks like just a coolant pipe,but agin I can't see properly with out removing quite a bit of stuff

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2017, 02:45:57 PM »
Iv actually found a helicoil kit on the bay for about £20,how do I make sure I get the right size?

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2017, 03:37:03 PM »
Iv also been back out as I dried all the wet diesel off all the pipes about 2 hours ago and it was still all dry I started it up to see it that showed where it was coming from and it's definitely the seal on the pump,I has the same smell from the other engine when I got it and I told the garage,out of interest I took the black metal part off the pump from my old engine and it looks like they just put silicon around the metal gasket,is this an option on the one in the car,I did notice some overspill of selicon had filled the thin channels inside the pump,

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2017, 08:45:44 PM »
I am fairly certain it is M12 thread but without taking mine out I cannot be 100%z

Sounds like typical LUK tandem pump leak if it's from the black end plate,you can get a seal kit for them as I did my spare one. You can clean it up and put smear of sealant on both sides of gasket. Will need to be fuel resistant type though like mega black or hylomar just make sure you give it overnight to cure before trying to start it.

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2017, 12:45:37 PM »
Iv taken the bolt out and it is M12 👍🏼 Iv ordered a helicoil kit and I'll test it first incase it's not quite right,

We have some of the fuel resistant black stuff so give that ago,hofully another job ticked off.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2017, 10:59:13 PM »
Must be one of the later modified pumps aswell then as early ones had a rubber seal for the end plate. Give the plate and pump face a good clean with contact cleaner and apply a smear both sides. Leave overnight and hopefully should be ok.
If it still leaks I have spare LUK pump you can have if yours has the black plastic vac outlet? My spare does not have the push in outlet so would need to be swapped off old one.  My spare pump has had new gasket kit fitted so should be all good.

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2017, 12:40:15 PM »
That's very kind jonny thank you,I'm hoping with having two I hopefully can get it sorted,both mine have the black solid plastic setup under the pump that it attached to the head and looks like it goes into the head,the plate I removed from the pump was off my old engine and was fitted with bolt heads,that was on the original engine with 150k on it,the replacement engine has what looks the same setup but is held in place with the star type head bolts and they said had 60k on it,Iv not taken that plate off yet as Iv not got a tool yet,it could also be a case of a loose bolt,so unsure what the seal is but if it's not got the metal seal would it be a good idea to use the one out my old engine along with some sealant?,

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2017, 12:59:38 PM »
The black plastic part is a water housing.

It might be worth sealing your original one and just fitting that instead as it will be quicker swapping the lot over rather than taking other one apart and leaving to set.

Then once it is off engine strip/clean and reseal then you have a spare to just bolt back on.

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2017, 08:23:46 PM »
Does the unit not seal onto the head or is it a sealed unit just attached to the head?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #46 on: August 13, 2017, 09:44:43 PM »
The unit has either metal gasket on joint with head or rubber seals depending what age the pump is.

The pump also has a couple of other seals aswell as the end plate one.

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #47 on: August 13, 2017, 10:36:05 PM »
Ah ok ill get the plate off the one that's in the car and get it sealed up and leave it over night and fingers crossed it will holed,l will also strip the one off the old engine and strip it down and be the plate sealed back on it,I managed to get the oil filler off the head and replaced it with just the oil cap and it's no longer seems to be seeping oil out,i have noticed Iv got the funny wobble people seem to be having after removing the drive shafts,I had to replace one side not long ago but it does feel worse since removing them to get the engine out,it a very odd problem.

Offline Mark Vardy

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2017, 11:02:36 AM »
Johnny do you have a link or info on where you bought your gasket kit from and also a recommended product to help with the seal? Both seals leak and we tried a product but it's for head gaskets and it won't dry as we think the fuel must be seeping onto it and then coming through as it holds for a few days.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: It's died and will not start
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2017, 11:13:53 AM »
Later type LUK kit

http://www.darwendiesels.com/home/12773-tandem-gasket-kit-.html

Early type LUK kit

http://www.darwendiesels.com/home/12774-tandem-gasket-kit-.html

Bosch pump kit

http://www.darwendiesels.com/home/12771-tandem-gasket-kit-.html


This is who I got mine from but they are on the fleabay aswell just need to know exactly what pump you have got. LUK has black plate on end with torx bolts holding on,the early ones had 2 green rubber gaskets between pump and head the later ones used a metal plate gasket.
Bosch pumps are all aluminium and look totally different.

It will say on pump make and part number.

Sealant I used was called megablack got it off fleabay.

 

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