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Author Topic: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving  (Read 7793 times)

Offline Boxey

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Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« on: November 19, 2015, 02:31:32 AM »

2003 1.9 TDi Galaxy Ghia 115 bhp (Auto)

Purchased the car (knowingly) with an unusual fault of starting fine, ticking over fine and revving to around 1500-2500rpm fine ..but revving over this results in the engine seemingly cutting itself out for half a second then (if your foot's kept on the accelerator) revs back up to the same point then cuts itself out for half a second again and repeats this until you take your foot off the accelerator or lower the revs to under the point where the problem starts. (For the sake of sound effects; if you keep your foot on the accelerator it sounds like: Wooo Wooo Wooo Wooo Wooo Wooo Wooo Wooo Wooo ..with the revs fluctuating by around 1000rpm on their own).

If I drove it like this it would kangaroo along the road when over 1500-2500rpm

Other than this, all the usual things seem fine, not loosing water, not over heating, turbo actuator moves freely, egr not clogged up.

Bizarrely though, this problem doesn't occur when the engine is cold, only when warm. When cold, I can rev to 4000-5000rpm without a problem.

While going through possible causes, I noticed the temperature gauge was not moving, or was moving very slightly then dropping back down on its own. So I thought I'd tackle that first, assuming it would be the common temperature sensor or broken wire problem. After disconnecting the sensor plug and noticing that the cable looked fine (and not having a spare sensor to hand) I shorted out the two connections in the plug to see if the temperature gauge would then go up all the way, thus confirming the cable didn't have a break in it elsewhere, this however is where things got odd.. when turning on the ignition, the temperature gauge goes all the way up, the "STOP" engine warning comes on and "Check coolant level" comes on, then they go off and the temperature gauge falls back down to zero, remaining there until the ignition is turned off then back on again, where the same thing happens again.

I imagine that the gauge should go up all the way and stay there until the ignition is turned off and not drop back down after just a few seconds?

If anyone has any ideas to the possible cause of either problem it would be much appreciated, as solving the problem with the temperature gauge is first on my list and may (or may not) be related somehow to the revving problem.

Thanks. 





Offline Chrispb

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2015, 04:43:21 AM »
Welcome to the forum.
The temp sensor when faulty can cause a rise in idle speed but not like your describing,
A fault code would usually be stored aswell, may be an idea to scan for fault codes anyway as the car is new to you.
Change the sensor first as there may be other issues, make sure you get same colour usually grey or black.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline bony6777

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2015, 07:34:45 AM »
Welcome to the forum.
The temp sensor when faulty can cause a rise in idle speed but not like your describing,
A fault code would usually be stored aswell, may be an idea to scan for fault codes anyway as the car is new to you.
Change the sensor first as there may be other issues, make sure you get same colour usually grey or black.
Can you recommend a software for scanning 2,3 petrol engine. Vagcom not able to read engine ecu.

Offline sasquartch

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2015, 09:58:48 AM »
A generic reader should work fine
Either buy a hand held scanner off ebay or buy a Bluetooth OBD dongle and use the Torque app on a phone to read the codes. Not sure if you need the paid for version to clear codes but it isn't expensive

Offline bony6777

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2015, 10:07:08 AM »
A generic reader should work fine
Either buy a hand held scanner off ebay or buy a Bluetooth OBD dongle and use the Torque app on a phone to read the codes. Not sure if you need the paid for version to clear codes but it isn't expensive
Thanks,will order one of eBay.does is o a market some proper software for Ford, like vagcom for vag vehicles?

Offline Boxey

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2015, 10:56:12 PM »

Thank you for the reply.

Have replaced the temperature sensor and the wiring going to it (as it was getting brittle), removed and cleaned the EGR (which was quite clogged up), checked the vacuum pipework and replaced a couple of sections due to some wear (but no holes), and replaced the MAF sensor.

The temperature gauge now appears to work correctly, although the problem with the revving remains... the confusing part being that when the engine is cold it will rev as expected (to the red line if need be) without an issue, but when the engine is up to temperature, revving to around 2500-3000rpm causes it to start fluctuating the revs with the engine continually going from around 1500 to 3000 on its own if your foot is held at that position.

VCDS brings up:

16705 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Implausible Signal P0321 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

Thus pointing to a fault with the crank speed sensor, however, the car starts perfectly (hot or cold) and ticks over and revs fine (with the exception of the above fault when warm)

Before I change the crank speed sensor, I wondered if anyone has any idea as to what might be causing the issue, as I believe changing the crank speed sensor may still result in the same problem.. although this may seem odd as VCDS shows a crank speed sensor fault, the fact that it works fine until the engine is up to temperature is sort of making me think that something else might be causing the issue.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2015, 06:06:22 PM »
Quite possible sensor or wiring to it are breaking down with increased heat,Vauxhall xe engines were notorious for doing similar.
Have a look at wiring plug for corrosion etc and check resistance across signal wires when cold and again when hot. On a typical crank sensor expect to see approx 0.9 to 1.1kohms anything drastically different to this or big difference between cold and hot would indicate it is in way out

Offline NickJ

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2015, 07:25:39 AM »
Hi, I recently had a similar problem with my Sharan although it's the petrol engine, sometimes just after starting it would rev to around 2k for about a minute before settling down, but when driving it wouldn't go above about 3.5k revs, also when warm it was very difficult to restart.
Turned out it was the temp sensor and crank speed sensor both needed replacing, it's running as it should now  ;D

Offline Boxey

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2015, 12:43:39 PM »
Thank you for the replies.

Replacing the crank speed sensor allowed the car to rev up when warm, although after revving to around 3500-4000rpm the engine then ran lumpy and flagged up:

18074 - PD Unit Injector; Cylinder 1 (N240): Electrical Malfunction
P1666 - 35-00 -

Shortly afterwards a cylinder 1 misfire error flagged up too (no doubt due to the electrical malfunction)

When there's a few dry days, I'll remove the rocker cover and check/test the loom.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2015, 04:45:19 PM »
Before removing cam cover I would check the plug on side of head as you could have disturbed it doing sensor

Offline Boxey

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2015, 06:37:32 PM »

Eventually got around to taking the rocker cover off to check the loom (after removing the EGR valve that I'd just put back on.. grrr).

The condition of the loom looked ok (no cracked insulation on the wires and no breaks in the conductors), however, a quick multi-meter continuity test while in situ showed a 0.4 ohm difference in one wire going to cylinder 1 injector. Although a very minute difference, I decided that the loom was coming out to check it over indoors. Checked it again indoors and still a slight difference, so, not having another loom at hand (and Ford wanting £105 and VW wanting £76 for a new one), I set about finding the problem, which turned out to be the crimped on connectors, although they were still holding the conductor tightly (and full of oil) I expect the oil and heat over the years had tarnished and degraded the conductivity. Re-crimping the connectors got the meter readings back to being uniform across all the injector plugs.

Double checked it before refitting to the engine, and now all seems well. Revs as it should, cold or hot, and doesn't flag up any electrical faults or misfires.

Next job is sorting out the auto gearbox (which had a suspected fault of sticking in first gear when I bought the car, but until the engine was running as it should I've been unable to test it).. so off for a (maybe very slow) drive later.

Offline Boxey

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2015, 01:15:19 AM »

Test drive was very slow, goes into first nicely but refuses to go up to second.. back in the yard now, will drain ATF and look at replacing a couple of solenoids when time/weather permits.

Offline Loon67

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2015, 08:55:41 AM »
Boxey, would be fascinated to hear what happens next.  I have a similar problem.  Car will not auto change out of first when cold.  Diagnostic is showing intermittent brake switch fault and intermittent gear selector fault. The independent gearbox guys I took it too were quite honest and said they'd stopped doing auto boxes as they were too problematic (now only do manuals), a but a mechanic in a nearby garage was ex-ford and said corroded electrical connectors often gave similar faults. I've checked just about every gearbox electrical connector  I can find under the battery tray, and reseated them all (they look fine) to no change.

Any clues as to location of any hidden connectors would be most appreciated.

Do any members have experience of fluid levels having any bearing on auto box operation, if the connectors don't solve the problem, fluid change may be next.

Thanks in advance.

Loon

Offline Boxey

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2016, 09:32:33 PM »
Loon67, Initially I would look at locating and rectifying the brake switch and gear selector fault, both of which send signals to the gearbox ECU and maybe stopping the ECU controlling the gearbox correctly.

If the problem remains after repairing the above issues, it is likely that one or more solenoid valves need replacing in the gearbox (a common problem on the 09A/09B gearbox).. the moving parts of the solenoids wear internally and cause them to stick in position after being activated.

Low gearbox fluid can cause problems, checking around the gearbox for leaks would be the first thing, but just adding fluid is not advised without doing a proper level check as overfilling can cause even more problems.

Offline Boxey

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2016, 09:48:30 PM »

Eventually got around to removing everything from around the gearbox valve panel, and removed several solenoids... checked their operation and noticed that the N92 solenoids plunger was sticking, holding the valve in the closed position... all others seem ok, although one or two are very very slightly sticking, but not enough to affect operation.

I wondered if anyone knows of a good (preferably cheap) place to purchase an N92 solenoid in the UK, as VW are asking £ 91 for one, which seems a little excessive.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2016, 01:03:43 PM »
Might be worth trying an auto gearbox specialist to see if they have other sources other than main dealers for obtaining parts which may be cheaper?
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline Boxey

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2016, 01:44:04 AM »

Eventually got hold of three gearbox solenoids and fitted them.

After a lot of research, I refilled the gearbox with Dexron III, and gave it a test drive, and everything is back to normal (with the exception of the temp gauge still playing up and the aux heater going over temp.. but I'll deal with them some other time).

Have now done a couple of hundred miles and all seems ok.

Now time to deal with a few other niggles .. the first being the central locking not working from fob (have tried the resetting the car/fob with the turning the key in the door/pressing the fob unlock button 3 times while holding the lock button etc.. the car LED goes to steady, the remote LED goes to flashing ..but the car doesn't seem to be getting the signal).

Offline FGTDI

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2016, 08:07:57 AM »
Hi boxey,

You may have the same problem as I have where the remote  flashes fine but is not transmitting?

A quick free, in my case, test at my local garage proved the remote was not transmitting.

The garage has a small box with LEDs which light up depending on the strength of the remote signal, nothing in my case.

Still on the to do list.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2016, 08:55:02 AM »
I would imagine the six heater over temp is probably the run on pump by bulkhead not running,the brushes wear out over time so cannot assist coolant flow to rear of the car. Look in library there is a how to for a simple few pound fix.
Temp gauge probably the thermostat not operating correctly mine displayed very similar symptoms prior to stay change.

As for shorting the sensor out they work slightly different to older cars so that method does not work the same as the ecu interprets the resistance back from it and determines temp, by putting a dead short on it the ecu senses it is out of range. To confirm temp sensor operation plug vcds in and see what temp it is reading,I would suspect it is reading correctly but thermostat being faulty is causing fluctuations in coolant temp.

Offline Boxey

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2016, 10:24:50 PM »
Thanks for the replies.

Will look into the thermostat and remote not transmitting.

Have just got around to sorting the dash so it shows miles to empty ..My A4 has it and it was so annoying that they omitted it on the Galaxy.


Offline Telly Addict

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Re: Mk2 Odd Tempreature Gauge Behavior And Unusual Revving
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2016, 11:12:53 AM »
Eventually got around to removing everything from around the gearbox valve panel, and removed several solenoids... checked their operation and noticed that the N92 solenoids plunger was sticking, holding the valve in the closed position... all others seem ok, although one or two are very very slightly sticking, but not enough to affect operation.

I wondered if anyone knows of a good (preferably cheap) place to purchase an N92 solenoid in the UK, as VW are asking £ 91 for one, which seems a little excessive.

Hi Boxey,

I've just joined the forum and spotted your thread.  I think I have a similar problem in that my auto Gal seems to stick in 1st gear sometimes, thread here for detail.

Do you per chance have photos of the valve panel when you took it all apart?  Are the solenoids able to be repaired/serviced?  Also, if you don't mind me asking (PM me if ness) where did you get the new solenoids?

Cheers

00 Mazda MX5 1.8 SE in Mica Metallic Green
00 VW Sharan 1.9 TDI 115
00 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 110 Zetec
53 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 115 Ghia Auto in State Blue
08 Suzuki GSF 1250S in Black
14 BMW Mini 2.0 Clubman Cooper SD in Spice Orange

 

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