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Author Topic: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades  (Read 394 times)

Offline kilimanjaro

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MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« on: December 23, 2019, 04:32:40 PM »
Hi guys,
I am considering overhauling the front end of my Alhambra 2005 130PD ASZ and was wondering if anyone can comment on the reliability of Motomax supplied CVs and associated shafts that I have read so much about. I am particularly keen to hear from Mirez because he installed Motomax parts some years ago as per his excellent write-up I read somewhere. I have had a low-pitched rumble and slight vibrations since my car was on 25k or so (now on 66k) but just put them down to general wear and tear. I am looking to replace shocks and springs/ball joints and tie rod ends as well as link rods but I thought it might be worth it considering replacing the output shaft and its attachments and CVs. Are Motomax parts better engineered than original VAG?

Offline Mirez

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Re: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2019, 09:40:28 PM »
Howdy!

Nothing much to report, 7 years on from when I originally changed the half shaft and the only thing to note is that the rubber boot is perishing a little. No undue movement in the joint though, its as good as it was when installed.

They sent me some inner CVs about a year later and those are also still on the car with no issue so no question of their quality from me!
03 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 115 Ghia in Spruce Green Metallic
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Offline kilimanjaro

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Re: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2019, 05:40:19 AM »
Thanks Mirez..and, compliments of the season.

Offline vpavlov

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Re: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2019, 08:23:21 PM »
Hello.
I have purchased the inner tripod joints for my Alhambra about 4 years ago.
Absolutely no problems with them so far, I even checked their condition about two months ago - very little wear visible on the metal surface after about 100000 miles.
But...
I had a lot of problems with the rubber boots for these inner cv joints. The original rubber bellows that came with the inner cv joints - some italian brand I don't remember at the moment, were perished after 10000 miles - they had cracks.
I contacted Motomax and the answer was that they never had any issues with the rubber bellows from that Italian company.
After that I started purchasing rubber bellows from Spidan part number 24367 which fits perfectly the Motomax inner cv joint. To my amazement the Spidan bellows exhibited the same flaw - with about 15000-20000 miles on them they developed cracks as if from old age although they were only 6-8 months old.
So for all this time I've replaced the bellows of the Motomax inner cv joints about 4-5 times.

At the time when I purchased the Motomax inner CV joints there was no other quality alternative except the OE form VW, or purchasing a whole driveshaft from Spidan or SKF.

Meanwhile Spidan has released inner CV joint (tripod) - part number 24745, which costs around 45 Euros.
Also they have outer CV joint - part number 21574 which is also relatively cheap.

Most interestingly they released intermediate driveshaft + stub shaft - part number 25707.
And to end the list there is a stub shaft only from Spidan - part number 25706.
The latter wasn't available from a quality manufacturer before - the only option was OE part.

I am in no way affiliated with Spidan, but in my opinion it's wise to install quality parts and not have to deal with the same aggravation again in 1 or 2 years.

Thanks.


Offline kilimanjaro

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Re: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2019, 03:00:22 AM »
Hi,
Many thanks Vpavlov for the very helpful information. I suppose the OE bellow (boot) would not not fit on the inner motomax cv. Changing CV boots every 10000-20000 miles cannot be much fun but if the CVs are definitely an upgrade then maybe it would be something one could live with. I am thinking of buying two used shafts and replacing the CVs on them with Motomax (inner) and SKF (outer) but keep my original (currently fitted) shafts intact (as spare) in case I may need them in the future as they seem to be Ok(ish). Would you recommend SPIDAN (i have not heard of them before)
Thanks.

Offline vpavlov

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Re: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2019, 01:41:32 PM »
Hello.
Yes, the OE bellows for the inner CV joint would not fit the Motomax CV joint.
Spidan and Loebro are part of the GKN Driveline aftermarket division. GKN Driveline is the OE supplier for the driveshafts of most German automakers and maybe the biggest supplier of driveshafts in the world. GKN is the OE supplier of the original VW Sharan driveshafts.
Motomax inner CV joints are also made by GKN and I think they are OE for some types of Audi A4 and Audi A6 there is a GKN logo stamped on them.
SKF is another quality manufacturer that I have never had any problems with.
Using original shafts and replacing only the CV joints seems wise to me because of all the problems with vibration with aftermarket driveshafts.

By the way the thread of the sliding hammer shaft from this kit https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/14-Piece-Injection-Puller-Tool-Bosch-Delphi-Deso-Siemens-Diesel-Injector-Remover/382811915686?hash=item59215e45a6:g:Sd4AAOSwsAVcdr6g
fits exactly the outer CV joint of the Sharan (2001-2010) and makes disassembling the outer CV joint from the shaft a simple affair.

And another tip: before tightening the Oetiker clamps on the bellow you have to equalize the pressure inside the bellow to the outside atmospheric pressure. This has to be done with the car wheels on the ground and the driveshaft in normal position, the wheels pointing straight will be ideal. To do this I don't tighten the small Oetiker clamp and drive to a nearby inspection pit (I think this is the name, it's only a 100 m. drive and the grease won't come out) pry a little screwdriver between the bellow and the shaft, a hissing noise of equalizing the pressure is heard and then mount and tighten the Oetiker clamp after that.
If you don't have access to an inspection pit this can be done with the car on the ground but I think the lower motor protection must be off and it is quite more difficult.
Thanks.


Offline brianh

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Re: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2019, 01:47:57 PM »
I think you will find Spidan are a European brand of GKN, and not one you'd normally find in the UK. You might find them through eBay listings though.

I had GKN boots on the driveshafts of the mk1 done when the clutch went on it at 160k, and they were still on there at 235k and 3 years later without a problem with the boots. That was a petrol though, I can't confirm if the boots are any different between the 2 engines or the mk1 vs mk2. I've had problems with other boots on other cars not lasting particually well though.

Offline kilimanjaro

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Re: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2019, 06:54:41 PM »
Thanks ever so much guys. It is so reassuring to learn about others experiences. By the way, what size splined tool is required to undo drive shaft bolts

Offline brianh

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Re: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2019, 11:22:03 PM »
Can't remember but think we used these on my mates Golf which has the same setup (your asking about the 6 around the joint at the end of the extension piece i guess)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-AK219-TRX-Star-Spline-Drive/dp/B000O5X26A/

Offline kilimanjaro

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Re: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2019, 10:50:35 PM »
Thanks again. I should have a set like that lying around somewhere but I will purchase this one, just in case. I shall update once I am done with the project.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2019, 03:37:11 PM »
After that I started purchasing rubber bellows from Spidan part number 24367 which fits perfectly the Motomax inner cv joint. To my amazement the Spidan bellows exhibited the same flaw - with about 15000-20000 miles on them they developed cracks as if from old age although they were only 6-8 months old.

Meanwhile Spidan has released inner CV joint (tripod) - part number 24745, which costs around 45 Euros.
Also they have outer CV joint - part number 21574 which is also relatively cheap.

Most interestingly they released intermediate driveshaft + stub shaft - part number 25707.
And to end the list there is a stub shaft only from Spidan - part number 25706.
The latter wasn't available from a quality manufacturer before - the only option was OE part.

I am in no way affiliated with Spidan, but in my opinion it's wise to install quality parts and not have to deal with the same aggravation again in 1 or 2 years.

Have you actually found a supplier who has stock of the Spidan or Lobro intermediate shaft though? Autodoc is a great source of parts but every time I've checked in the last 6+ months to see if they have either the Lobro or Spidan part- stock codes 305901 or 25707 respectively, which will be identical apart from the packaging I assume- in stock, their website says 'out of stock', leading me to think that they're either discontinued or on a long term backorder:

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/drive-shaft-10162/ford/galaxy/galaxy-wgr/17611-1-9-tdi?supplier%5B1%5D=1&supplier%5B0%5D=56

For the reasons you've given, I'd like to use the GKN replacement part now that my intermediate shaft will soon need replacing, but if there's anybody out there actually with stock of them, I'd like to know! Autodoc have stock of the stub shaft part only, but without the matching intermediate shaft, it's useless! Why sell the stub shaft separately and not the mating intermediate shaft?!

The inner CV boots are a weak point on these vehicles, curiously the nearside one starts to fail more quickly than the offside one (or at least on my vehicle) despite the outer shafts being identical on both sides. I recently fitted a replacement Lobro inner CV boot kit (code 304739) on the nearside (having fitted a genuine boot kit 5 years previously) and so far it seems to be doing ok with no early signs of splitting apparent (although the Oetiker clip supplied in the Lobro kit for the small end of the boot was too small and despite my best efforts I just couldn't squeeze it small enough before crimping it to get the locking tabs to engage- I ended up buying the genuine clip from Ford which was fractionally larger and had no trouble engaging the locking tabs once the clip was installed over the boot prior to crimping it) - it's been on the car about 10,000 miles so far. The boots always seem to fail in the area next to where the Oetiker clip retains the boot to the shaft as in the below image:

6796-0
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline brianh

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Re: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2019, 04:05:31 PM »
Those clips I've found to be easiest to obtain from J&R - I picked up a few boot kits from their stock off ebay a while back as the holes are punched much further around them than the ones you get with a lot of boots, so come in useful when you have a problem like that.

Offline vpavlov

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Re: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2020, 10:36:53 AM »
Hello.
At the moment I find Spidan 25707 only through daparto.de.
https://www.daparto.de/Teilenummernsuche/Spidan/25707
As I live in Bulgaria we here have options for low cost shipping from UK and Germany to Bulgaria- something like 1GBP/kg, so for me shipping from  uK or Germany is not a problem.
One observation - when I searched for Spidan 25707 a few months ago it indeed did't appear to be stocked by any supplier. Today I've found this listing on daparto.de site, pointing that the original seller is carondo.de.
Daparto.de is some type of price comparing site for all German parts distributor sites. I am pretty sure that the listing from above is legit and if I order from them Spidan 25707 it will be delivered.
Spidan 25706 on the other hand is listed on 6 different German parts sites, according to daparto.de.

About 6 months ago I purchased an intermediate driveshaft plus stub shaft from a German ebay seller - not OE but made in Europe - maybe Lithuania or Poland - at least the bearing on the intermediate driveshaft was Lithuanian. The opinions about these parts were good, according to the buyers.
But... When I tried to fix an OE intermediate driveshaft (second hand one, but in almost pristine condition) to the stub shaft I purchased it did not fit.
I ended using the new parts as they fit one to the other.
Thanks.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2020, 10:47:16 PM »
Those clips I've found to be easiest to obtain from J&R - I picked up a few boot kits from their stock off ebay a while back as the holes are punched much further around them than the ones you get with a lot of boots, so come in useful when you have a problem like that.

I was just surprised that the clip supplied in a kit by a manufacturer such as GKN would not be quite right. It fitted over the shaft with no issue, it was just when you tried to squeeze it over the actual boot prior to clamping it was impossible to get the tabs to engage- I busted the locking tab trying by bending it open to try to give a bit more slack. Although the difference in size was marginal, the OE clip was marginally bigger and I had no difficulties fitting it over the boot and engaging the tab before crimping it. Having said that, I'm sure many people have resorted to a cable tie when the correct size clip isn't available- that's what I did until the replacement genuine part turned up!
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2020, 11:03:29 PM »
Hello.
At the moment I find Spidan 25707 only through daparto.de.
https://www.daparto.de/Teilenummernsuche/Spidan/25707
As I live in Bulgaria we here have options for low cost shipping from UK and Germany to Bulgaria- something like 1GBP/kg, so for me shipping from  uK or Germany is not a problem.
One observation - when I searched for Spidan 25707 a few months ago it indeed did't appear to be stocked by any supplier. Today I've found this listing on daparto.de site, pointing that the original seller is carondo.de.
Daparto.de is some type of price comparing site for all German parts distributor sites. I am pretty sure that the listing from above is legit and if I order from them Spidan 25707 it will be delivered.


Thanks for the information! The Spidan part on that website is a very good price as well. My German is poor to non-existent and if there's a way of changing the language to English on Daparto I couldn't find it but if they ship to the UK I may try ordering it through them.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline brianh

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Re: MOTOMAX drive shaft upgrades
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2020, 03:17:45 PM »
I was just surprised that the clip supplied in a kit by a manufacturer such as GKN would not be quite right. It fitted over the shaft with no issue, it was just when you tried to squeeze it over the actual boot prior to clamping it was impossible to get the tabs to engage- I busted the locking tab trying by bending it open to try to give a bit more slack. Although the difference in size was marginal, the OE clip was marginally bigger and I had no difficulties fitting it over the boot and engaging the tab before crimping it. Having said that, I'm sure many people have resorted to a cable tie when the correct size clip isn't available- that's what I did until the replacement genuine part turned up!

I'd agree with you the general idea would be that if something is ordered to do a job, it should actually be able to do the job. But at the same time, the last thing I wanted to have to do was get back under the car again after a delay for something as simple as a clip either.

I think the GKN ones I had were ok, sounds like yours is more of a manufacturer fault than anything.

 

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