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Large MPVs -- Ford Galaxy / VW Sharan / SEAT Alhambra: => Ford Galaxy / VW Sharan / SEAT Alhambra => Topic started by: Muggins on August 24, 2020, 10:05:31 PM

Title: New owner MK2 Galaxy need a work around for brake lights
Post by: Muggins on August 24, 2020, 10:05:31 PM
Hello
I am living in Portugal and recently had to replace my Fiesta after someone rear ended me. For some reason the Portuguese like to drive very close behind you either to speed you up or make suicidal overtaking easier.
The Mk2 1.9 diesel Galaxy I bought has a multitude of electrical problems, eg no central locking no remote function and about a 50% chance of anything with a bulb or a heater in it actually working. The vehicle market here is unique in that used cars cost double the uk price at least and  I notice I could get a uk example with half the miles 5 years younger for a third of the 3500 euros the 2002 230000 Km car cost me. If you  dont believe me look at the prices on www.kbb.pt. Diesel sells at a premium here due to percieved lower running costs. In a low wage economy this is the paramount concern and diesel actually is cheaper. Dealers commonly offer 120 month finance, depreciation doesnt seem to exist in the way we know it.
Importation is not an option, it costs the same and tax ins etc is much more. At least they have no rust so last thirty years or more but accumulate age related niggly issues.
Anyway all I want is for the car to start go stop and steer which mostly it does, but I have no brake lights, which in view of the rear ending tendency gives me some concerns.
I found the wire in the tailgate hinge was broken so repaired it and checked every fuse. Looking on here I see the fuse number is 15 so will go back to that one. There is no feed on this white/grey wire though the high level lights work normally. The reversing lights which share a return also work.
Can anyone please tell me if the brake light switch is a single n\o contact if so why do the high level and the filament brake lights have different feeds? Getting to the switch looks very difficult and would need by the look of it some plasticy bits removed. Can I assume it is ok because the high levels work?
I assume the switch signals the ecu which energises both feeds.
If as seems likely I get nowhere with this could I link the high levels to the other lights as a workaround? I could change the filament bulbs for LEDs to reduce the current draw or use a solid state relay to switch them.
Thanks for any feedback,

Title: Re: New owner MK2 Galaxy need a work around for brake lights
Post by: johnnyroper on August 24, 2020, 10:33:58 PM
Without looking at a drawing I would say the brake light switch contact operates all brake lights, now whether the BCM sends a single feed out to all 3 stop lights I don’t know. Ideally you need someone on here to look for a circuit drawing. Gut feeling on a car of that age I would say it gives a single feed which is then directed off to the lights but cannot he 100%. As an interim measure while you figure it out I would tap off the high level light.

Title: Re: New owner MK2 Galaxy need a work around for brake lights
Post by: Chrispb on August 24, 2020, 11:19:37 PM
Yes separate feeds out the central fuse box for each light.
Assuming correct bulbs fitted? is bulb failure warning light coming up on dash? does car have a trailer lighting socket that may be damaged?
Broken door wiring causes a lot of problems with central locking and windows and does cause problems in other areas.
Agree a quick fix would be tap off the high level with a fuse and a relay.
Are hazards and indicators working OK.
Title: Re: New owner MK2 Galaxy need a work around for brake lights
Post by: regw on August 24, 2020, 11:32:24 PM
Brown is ground and you should get continuity throughout the car on this

Grey/white is the LH tail light cable
Grey/red is the RH tail light cable

Black white is the LH stop light
Black/Red is the RH stop light

The NO stop switch is fed by a Red/yellow from F15
and when switched gives power  out on a Black/red to the
passenger fuse and control box where the two cables run out to the stop lights

According to my manual this Black/red wire from the switch it tapped before
the control box and goes directly to the high level light so it could be used
as a trigger if you wanted to by pass the control box

Whether you use a relay, SSR or transistor ( I've done that before, not on a galaxy though)
to switch the stop lamps, I reckon you're still going to have check the switch function.
You may be able to check this with a meter on the Black/red at the passenger fuse box
and only dig the actual switch out if its faulty
 
HTH
Title: Re: New owner MK2 Galaxy need a work around for brake lights
Post by: regw on August 24, 2020, 11:34:35 PM
Hang on a mo
If the high level light is working, then the brake light switch must be working right?
Title: Re: New owner MK2 Galaxy need a work around for brake lights
Post by: Muggins on August 25, 2020, 09:23:27 AM
regw
Thank you so much for that brilliant information, just what I needed to know.
The stop and reverse light share a common blue wire return which is not actually body ground but a few ohmes away, is this some kind of current sense?
Yes I assumed that if the high levels worked then the switch must be operative.
Title: Re: New owner MK2 Galaxy need a work around for brake lights
Post by: Muggins on August 25, 2020, 09:37:45 AM
So if the fuse had a sufficient rating and I didnt overload the stop switch I could just connect the stop lights from black/red to brown.
Yes I have a light fault warning light, but it could be for anything. Hazards and indicators all work.
The passenger side control/fuse box which in this case would be on the right is behind the storage bin?
Any relavent fuses in there?
Title: Re: New owner MK2 Galaxy need a work around for brake lights
Post by: brianh on August 25, 2020, 09:50:20 AM
Passenger fuse box would be the one by the drivers knee, rather than the one under the bonnet. I believe the LHD models have it on the same side as the steering wheel as far as i know.

The bulb failure light only monitors the headlights and brake lights as far as I've found.

Before you start getting too far into it, check the bulbs are really the correct ones and that someone hasn't forced the wrong type in there (can't remember off hand if they are the single or dual filament type, but the contacts on the base of the bulb should match the holder).

I'd also double check you don't still have a broken wire in the tailgate wiring as they are known to be problematic on these
Title: Re: New owner MK2 Galaxy need a work around for brake lights
Post by: Chrispb on August 25, 2020, 10:44:32 AM
Hi Peter
You need to use a relay with a separate feed, only use the stop light switch to provide the signal  the relay other wise you may burn out the stop light switch.

Have sent you a diagram and pin out to check for power at the fuse box.
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Title: Re: New owner MK2 Galaxy need a work around for brake lights
Post by: regw on August 25, 2020, 04:09:27 PM
I only have a Hyenas manual for reference and it shows no
Blues cables related to the rear lamps so it may well be part of a
current sensing, failure detection process for all I know

Re Brainh's post
I doubt I'm the only one to have made the mistake of devising
elaborate solutions to simple problems so it's always good practise
to back to basics and check the obvious things first.

If it does seem the control box is faulty and you want a quick fix
to get stop lamps working
I'd probably tap into the rear accessory socket with say a 5A fuse
for power to a relay.
2x 21W stop lamp bulbs will use around 3-4A in use
(21/14*2)
and have the relay triggered from the Black/red wire to the Hi level led

A SSR would draw much less actuating current from this circuit than a 20A automotive relay with a coil resistance of typically 70 ohms
so only draw say 20 mA Vs 200mA
Title: Re: New owner MK2 Galaxy need a work around for brake lights
Post by: Muggins on August 25, 2020, 07:48:09 PM
Hello everyone,
May I start by saying how much I appreciate all the brilliant help you have offered me, and so quickly too.
In my defence I recruited the only person available for the light check an 80 year old lady, far from daft but not ideal.
So we went down a few rabbit holes pressing the clutch not the brake, not hearing when I shouted "press now, foot off etc" so it was very confusing.
When she said one brake light was out she pointed to the cluster on the tailgate which means that for the past two days I have been trying to get the rear fogs to follow the brake pedal.
All the messing about with the tailgate boot  and the wiring problems there while worth doing had nothing to do with it.
The brake lights are on the body and a bulb was blown. The one that did work was very dim and as it is mighty sunny here I didn´t see it. The light fault indicator is now happy too.
I can only apologise profusely and go immediately to make a donation.
This is how bridges collapse, aircraft crash and ships sink. There is probably a psychological term for this misdirection of effort
Title: Re: New owner MK2 Galaxy need a work around for brake lights
Post by: SirDavidAlhambra on August 25, 2020, 08:07:35 PM
Hehe!!

Also I agree that everyone here is so friendly and helpful, it is lovely to be part of such a positive and kind (not to mention knowledgable) community!

 LOL [HAHA] cya
Title: Re: New owner MK2 Galaxy need a work around for brake lights
Post by: Chrispb on August 26, 2020, 01:04:03 AM
Wish they were all as easy as that [GJ]
Title: Re: New owner MK2 Galaxy need a work around for brake lights
Post by: brianh on August 26, 2020, 10:13:32 AM
The tailgate wiring definitely has something to do with the brake lights, as if one of the wires breaks you end up with the dashboard lighting up when you press the brake pedal. Despite the actual brake lights being on the body. At least you have it fixed and you will probably find the broken wire you fixed will help there.

A large mirror can be more useful sometimes, or a broomstick cut to the right length pushed between pedal and seat.
Title: Re: New owner MK2 Galaxy need a work around for brake lights
Post by: SirDavidAlhambra on August 26, 2020, 10:26:49 AM
Hi everyone!

I think the idea of a large mirror is a really good one.

A handy trick an old-timer once told me was, if you are trying to check your lights on your own, back the motor car up against a wall and use that to take a look (the lights shine closely on the wall and it's easy to see if they are working). It's even easier if you do it when it's a bit dark outside.

To this date, I have left immeasurable round soot stains on various walls as a result! He he! Although actually you only need to get within a foot or two of the wall, not literally right up against it.

 cya
Title: Very grateful to Chris...
Post by: crbtutor on September 01, 2020, 12:41:12 PM
My thanks Chris for diagnosing faults on my Galaxy and repairing broken wires in the driver's door.
 [WAVE]
You are fantastic.

All the very best.