Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
Sign in with Facebook Sign in with Twitter Sign in with Google Sign in with Linkedin Sign in with Microsoft

Hello! Welcome to the Ford and Volkswagen MPV / SUV Forums.
Dedicated forums for the Ford Galaxy, S-Max, C-Max, B-Max and Kuga.
User groups for the SEAT Alhambra, Volkswagen Sharan, Touran, Tiguan and Touareg!

Owners Forums for Ford and Volkswagen MPVs / SUVs

Ford Galaxy S-Max C-Max B-Max Tourneo Connect / Volkswagen Sharan Touran Tiguan Touareg Caravelle / SEAT Alhambra Alteca 

 Mk1 and Mk2 VW Sharan  Mk1 and Mk2 Ford Galaxy  Mk1 and Mk2 SEAT Alhambra  Ford C-Max B-Max  VW Tiguan  VW Touran  Mk3 Ford Galaxy  Mk3 VW Sharan  Mk3 SEAT Alhambra  VW T4 T5 Caravelle Transporter  Ford Tourneo Connect  VW Touareg

Advert:


Recent Forum Topics:

Google Translate:

Ford Galaxy / VW Sharan / SEAT Alhambra Forum:

Author Topic: No spark  (Read 8214 times)

Offline magicman

  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 2.3
  • Region: South East
No spark
« on: August 28, 2016, 12:18:01 PM »
Hi. Wife's galaxy mk2 2.3 ran like it was on 2 cylinders on starting then cut out & now won't start. No sign of any problems before.  Just starting after sitting overnight .Turns over ok but not fire up.No spark through any HT lead.  Code P0351 came up so thought coil or leads?After changing coil/leads it still not starts.  3 amp "power to on board electronics" fuse in engine compartment had blown.  Changed this but no difference. Also changed relay 30 just incase. Fuel is getting through as plugs covered in it. Have checked 12v supply at plug that goes into coil and it is present with ignition on. Guessing that other 2 wires should be live when turning over for firing order? Nothing from theses even when turning over.  Wondering any other fuses/relays to be checked?? Any other ideas?
Many thanks in advance Andy
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 12:19:34 PM by magicman »

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
  • *
  • Posts: 2427
  • Thanked: 71
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: '54 130ps TDI Ghia
  • First Name: Paul
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2016, 12:49:50 PM »
Do you have the setup with one coil bolted onto the end of the cylinder head or two coils under the removable cover which sits atop the rocker cover? Ignition coil issues are fairly common with these engines so coils and leads would be my #1 suspect, though not the only potential cause.

EDIT: You say you've already replaced the coil/s with no difference, coupled with a blown engine management fuse that suggests to me there could be a wiring short somewhere or internal PCM fault, neither of which will be easy to diagnose or find....  :( If you recheck the fuse you replaced, has it blown again? Are there any other blown fuses? My memory is a bit hazy but I think the centre pin of the 3 pin coil connector carries a 12v permanent live and the PCM switches the earths to the coils alternately via the other 2 pins.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 02:50:11 PM by insanitybeard »
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline magicman

  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 2.3
  • Region: South East
Re: No spark
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2016, 02:14:49 PM »
Hi thanks for reply. It`s the coil bolted onto cylinder head. Replaced fuse has not blown again. Have checked other fuses that i think relevant, (will take out all & check now)No other blown fuses. When testing lead into coil it has 3. Middle is live when ignition is on. Would you know if other 2  should become live when engine turns over? I am guessing  that these supply coil alternately in firing order? Any relays apart from 30 that i could replace? 
Have been thinking PCM myself but dreading the thought!  :'(
Reset the  P0351 code & nothing showing since.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
  • *
  • Posts: 2427
  • Thanked: 71
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: '54 130ps TDI Ghia
  • First Name: Paul
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2016, 02:32:01 PM »
Sorry, edited my above post regarding the lives and earths at the coil pack connector. Because it's a 'wasted spark' system the coil pack fires two cylinders simultaneously, the PCM earths each coil in turn (there are two separate coils within the single coil pack) which determines which spark plugs fire.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline magicman

  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 2.3
  • Region: South East
Re: No spark
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2016, 03:04:55 PM »
Hmmm. I am getting 12v from 1 side & nothing from other.  :(

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
  • *
  • Posts: 2427
  • Thanked: 71
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: '54 130ps TDI Ghia
  • First Name: Paul
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2016, 05:34:29 PM »
How many pins has the connector got? If it's the single coil pack there should be 3 pins, IIRC 12v live on the central pin and the other 2 are earths.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline magicman

  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 2.3
  • Region: South East
Re: No spark
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2016, 07:58:41 PM »
It has 3 pins. When i tested 1st time i assumed all were positive. With test meter put + on all 3 - to battery. Have now put + to middle & - to each either side,(hoping that is correct way to test). 1 side is live and middle also.  Nothing other side.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
  • *
  • Posts: 2427
  • Thanked: 71
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: '54 130ps TDI Ghia
  • First Name: Paul
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2016, 09:41:10 PM »
Hm, I don't think that's right. It needs somebody else to confirm but I think only one pin should have 12v. If I am correct that means you have either a wiring short or an internal PCM fault (unless the ignition system fitted to the 2.3 petrol has an ignition module separate from the PCM) and it's sending 12v up a cable it shouldn't be. I'd start by checking for wiring damage in the loom leading to the coil connector.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 09:52:58 PM by insanitybeard »
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline magicman

  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 2.3
  • Region: South East
Re: No spark
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2016, 10:06:56 PM »
Cheers.
Don`t think it looking good. Have taken out every fuse in box to check nothing blown. Taken out & tapped  every relay. All visible wiring good.
If it is PCM is it a major job?  Can`t even find one to buy(ebay etc.)? Read somewhere that it is time consuming as dash has to come out. Seem to recall that you can get to it via top/clock but very difficult & need small hands.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
  • *
  • Posts: 2427
  • Thanked: 71
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: '54 130ps TDI Ghia
  • First Name: Paul
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2016, 10:15:25 PM »
Just a note on testing, they way I would do it would be (with the voltmeter set to volts obviously) to test all 3 pins relative to battery -ve, if I'm correct and the system was working normally I'd expect to see a full 12v (battery voltage) difference on the middle pin and no voltage difference on the other two.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline magicman

  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 2.3
  • Region: South East
Re: No spark
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2016, 10:35:16 PM »
Sorry but prob me being thick. Does that mean one lead from tester on feed pin & 1 on battery for each pin?

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
  • *
  • Posts: 2427
  • Thanked: 71
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: '54 130ps TDI Ghia
  • First Name: Paul
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2016, 10:46:52 PM »
The positive lead from the meter to one pin at a time in the connector and the negative lead from the meter to the negative battery terminal. The ignition would need to be switched on to position 2 obviously. This isn't the only way to test but it's how I'd test it.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline magicman

  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 2.3
  • Region: South East
Re: No spark
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2016, 07:22:48 AM »
Checking with battery negative gives middle live nothing either side.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
  • *
  • Posts: 2427
  • Thanked: 71
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: '54 130ps TDI Ghia
  • First Name: Paul
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2016, 08:28:22 AM »
That's what I'd expect to find if there was no problem. How have you determined there is definitely no spark? Held the HT lead with a spark plug in the end of it against the rocker cover and got somebody to crank it over?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 08:30:12 AM by insanitybeard »
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline magicman

  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 2.3
  • Region: South East
Re: No spark
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2016, 08:57:13 AM »
Yes checked with plugs. Was thinking of buying spark tester from halfords incase not testing correctly with plugs. I used all 4 plugs out of car  in case 1 plug was faulty. Can`t see all 4 going bad at once.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
  • *
  • Posts: 2427
  • Thanked: 71
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: '54 130ps TDI Ghia
  • First Name: Paul
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2016, 09:42:28 AM »
I don't think that's a good way to test it. I may be wrong but because of the way the wasted spark system works, having all of the plugs out of the head at once will result in an incomplete circuit and they won't fire anyway. I'd recommend putting them all back in and connecting all the leads up, then remove just one plug and lead at a time, earth the plug against the rocker cover then get somebody to crank whilst you check for a spark- just be careful not to get an electric shock! Repeat for all 4 plugs.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline magicman

  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 2.3
  • Region: South East
Re: No spark
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2016, 09:49:10 AM »
That`s a good point. Taking all plugs out & earthing only one isn`t a good idea. Never thought of that. Will give it a go. Cheers

Offline magicman

  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 2.3
  • Region: South East
Re: No spark
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2016, 07:30:54 PM »
Update. The coil i bought was from scrap yard who assured me that it came from a running vehicle. Had been thinking that maybe it was another faulty coil. Decided to purchase a brand new one. Have fitted this. It reluctantly started & ran like it was only on 1 or 2 cylinders.but did not cut out. Next to happen was smoke from the new coil as it was overheating.  :o Turned it off & coil was red hot. Only one side though. Well stumped now. Perhaps only 1  coil in pack is being sent signal & that is why it not running on all 4 cylinders. Is that why only 1 side of coil pack is overheating? Would this be the working coil or the not working? Would a faulty crankshaft sensor do this or would it just not run? No fault code has been stored?
Any thoughts greatly received.

Offline johnnyroper

  • *
  • Posts: 2950
  • Thanked: 148
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 tdi 115 ghia
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2016, 08:13:46 PM »
I don't know anything about the 2.3 but I would t think it was crank sensor related.
I would be looking at ecu/wiring from ecu to be likely cause of its over heating the coil pack,or an earth issue??

Offline magicman

  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 2.3
  • Region: South East
Re: No spark
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2016, 09:04:03 PM »
Thanks for reply. Yeah i have been thinking ECU & insanitybeard suggested this also. Cant see any faults with wiring to coil but if i am right i think ECU is located in dash board so can't check all way?  Is there any way to test crank sensor? Would a code for crank sensor always show as no codes are stored. (originally did have Ignition Coil Primary Code P0351 but this was reset )

Offline johnnyroper

  • *
  • Posts: 2950
  • Thanked: 148
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 tdi 115 ghia
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2016, 09:20:44 PM »
The crank sensor is just an inductive pulse pick up there will be a double tooth width gap for TDC so the ecu can work out the position of crank. You can measure resistance of the sensor across the wires. 2 of them will be signal from and to ecu and the other will be screen.

On signal wires looking for approx 0.9-1.0k ohm. Signal wires to screen should be open circuit or very close to.

You can test with an oscilloscope to see output,but hertz will give an indication it of it sending a signal back while cranking.But to be honest I can only see it causing hard or no starting and not burnt coil.
The coil code you had previously would be due to the burnt out coil.
Out of curiosity have you checked basics like changing spark plugs? Does it have HT leads from coil to plugs?

I would be disconnecting coils and ecu and measuring resistance between the plugs and also checking the feed cables to earth to make sure no shorts anywhere before going down ecu route. I don't know where ecu is on the 2.3.

Offline magicman

  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 2.3
  • Region: South East
Re: No spark
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2016, 09:28:55 PM »
To be honest i haven't changed spark plugs as the problem only occurred from parking up over night. It was running fine when switched off then next day on starting ran rough & caused problems. Thought (maybe wrongly) that wouldn't be plugs as wouldn`t happen overnight. Would have trouble leading up to this.

Offline johnnyroper

  • *
  • Posts: 2950
  • Thanked: 148
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 tdi 115 ghia
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2016, 09:53:14 PM »
It's a cheap and easy job to do so I would be changing plugs just in case one is shorting out,rare but can happen.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
  • *
  • Posts: 2427
  • Thanked: 71
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: '54 130ps TDI Ghia
  • First Name: Paul
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2016, 10:42:30 PM »
If a brand new coil pack is getting hot on one side only then I'd be looking for wiring shorts relating to the 3 low tension cables connected to it (not the 4 high tension leads to the plugs), if one side of the coil is being continuously earthed by the PCM (or the wiring is damaged somewhere causing a continual short to ground) then that could explain the issue you're having, if the coil was earthed continually it could well cause the overheating you describe and also why you found the engine management fuse popped in the first place.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline bony6777

  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: Y reg. 2,3 manual.
  • First Name: Ruslan
  • Region: London
Re: No spark
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2016, 07:10:13 PM »
full explanation of dtc p0351

https://www.obd-codes.com/p0351

Отправлено с моего EVA-L09 через Tapatalk


Offline mike wilson

  • *
  • Posts: 467
  • Thanked: 19
  • Model: Galaxy Mk3
  • Spec: 14 TitX 2.0TDCI
  • Region: North East
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2016, 08:37:29 AM »
Отправлено с моего EVA-L09 через Tapatalk

Правда?

Offline bony6777

  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: Y reg. 2,3 manual.
  • First Name: Ruslan
  • Region: London
Re: No spark
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2016, 09:05:35 AM »
Правда?
Да,правда.

Отправлено с моего EVA-L09 через Tapatalk


Offline mike wilson

  • *
  • Posts: 467
  • Thanked: 19
  • Model: Galaxy Mk3
  • Spec: 14 TitX 2.0TDCI
  • Region: North East
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2016, 04:57:37 PM »
круто

Offline bony6777

  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: Y reg. 2,3 manual.
  • First Name: Ruslan
  • Region: London
Re: No spark
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2016, 04:58:34 PM »
круто
Что круто то ,Михаил.?

Отправлено с моего EVA-L09 через Tapatalk


Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
  • *
  • Posts: 2427
  • Thanked: 71
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: '54 130ps TDI Ghia
  • First Name: Paul
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2016, 05:02:24 PM »
Can anybody translate for the rest of the class?!  [NE1]
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline bony6777

  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: Y reg. 2,3 manual.
  • First Name: Ruslan
  • Region: London
Re: No spark
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2016, 06:21:27 PM »
Can anybody translate for the rest of the class?!  [NE1]
Nothing to translate,just few words on russian

Отправлено с моего EVA-L09 через Tapatalk


Offline mike wilson

  • *
  • Posts: 467
  • Thanked: 19
  • Model: Galaxy Mk3
  • Spec: 14 TitX 2.0TDCI
  • Region: North East
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2016, 08:59:33 AM »
Completely used up my capabilities, too.  I'm better with Polish.  Have done quite a bit of work in Central Europe but only a few times in Russia, mostly in Ekatrinburg, and that over a decade ago.

Offline bony6777

  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: Y reg. 2,3 manual.
  • First Name: Ruslan
  • Region: London
Re: No spark
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2016, 09:03:01 AM »
I'm not good at polish at all.And Russian is my native language.😉

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk


Offline magicman

  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Thanked: 0
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 2.3
  • Region: South East
Re: No spark
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2016, 06:36:36 PM »
Hi. Have come to conclusion of ECU failure.  :( Any tips on location or removal would be greatly appreciated.
Once out am i right in thinking that i have to match up all part numbers when looking on ebay? Once replacement fitted i guess it will need programming?

Offline johnnyroper

  • *
  • Posts: 2950
  • Thanked: 148
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 tdi 115 ghia
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2016, 06:53:24 PM »
Don't quote me on it but I believe it is behind dashboard and requires the top section of dash removing,may be possible to lift dash up to access?

To remove top of dash the trim between top and bottom has to come off to access screws,there is also nuts behind bulkhead that requires scuttle trim and wiper motor removal.

Yes you need to match numbers off it, if it's new one it will need to be programmed.if you buy used then you will probably also need the key and immobiliser gubbins I would imagine but no doubt someone on here will range to confirm. Not sure if used ecu can be re-programmed on another car I know some other manufacturers can't hence needing the immobiliser stuff.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
  • *
  • Posts: 2427
  • Thanked: 71
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: '54 130ps TDI Ghia
  • First Name: Paul
  • Region: South West
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: No spark
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2016, 07:25:28 PM »
I can't remember if the 2.3 has the PATS integrated into the PCM or if there's a separate immobiliser module, if it's integrated then you'll definitely need to programme your keys to it (unless you can find a seller flogging the PCM along with keys in which case you may be able to swap the PATS chips to your existing keys), if it's a separate immobiliser module you may just need to initialise the replacement PCM to it.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Latest
9 Replies
3154 Views
Latest June 13, 2013, 03:07:45 PM
by strett1972
2 Replies
3446 Views
Latest July 02, 2014, 06:54:47 PM
by Grant2012
7 Replies
4478 Views
Latest June 04, 2015, 04:09:21 PM
by marinabrid
4 Replies
2300 Views
Latest February 05, 2017, 10:41:52 PM
by marinabrid
0 Replies
884 Views
Latest August 17, 2018, 06:13:28 PM
by brianh
2 Replies
947 Views
Latest November 14, 2018, 07:07:08 PM
by brianh

Advertisement:


SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk