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Author Topic: Problems with manual heat regulation  (Read 2692 times)

Offline Albireo

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Problems with manual heat regulation
« on: May 28, 2017, 10:38:13 PM »
The car is a Ford Galaxy 2.3 petrol 2002, Manual AC (regulated with a round handle), Manual transmission.
It started with regulation of the heat, ceasing to work. After a while, the heat regulation began to work again.
For a while you could regulate the heat and the next moment not...
After further awhile, it stopped working again. Now it doesn't work at all.
The level of heat, is stayed in the state where it stopped to work.
The same applies to the heat control for the rear cabin

The easiest way to see that it does not work is that no lights are lit, when the heat / Aircondition buttons are pressed.
(the heater panel with controls is replaced)

It feels like the whole panel has no power.
Where should the troubleshooting starts?

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2017, 09:04:02 AM »
Check if not done already fuses 14, 18, 34,
if fuses are OK Scan HVAC with Vagcom/VCDS
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

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Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2017, 04:10:48 PM »
Don't know if same on manual but when my digital climate threw a wobbler i checked and cleared codes as suggested above but also went in to basic settings and group 1 I think it was? This reset the flap motors and performed an output test,been fine since then

Offline Albireo

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2017, 09:07:47 PM »
Thanks!
When the ignition switch is on, I have +12V on all this fuses.

As information
Has replaced the heater control panel with all buttons, (as  cool/hot handle / fan switch (0-4) / Choice direction of airflow and so on).
But no change - ie. Nothing started to work.

Have only runned ELM327 (I found nothing - but I'm not sure if ELM327, can read errors on AC / ABS and so on, on this car...)
(Is there any cheap OBD2 reader that would work?)
What is "HVAC"?

Is there any relay / switch that could be checked?







Offline Albireo

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2017, 09:20:47 PM »
....This reset the flap motors and performed an output test,been fine since then
Will not everything be "reset" if the battery is removed (about 30 min)?
(The pollen filter has been changed)

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2017, 10:54:05 PM »
Hvac is heating ventilation air conditioning, get vcds lite off the eBay.

I think it is more re syncing the motors than resetting so the panel knows the position of them.

Offline Albireo

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2017, 10:31:07 AM »
...I think it is more re syncing the motors than resetting so the panel knows the position of them.
(Will try to get an error code reader - is it difficult to use?)
But the lights in the buttons ... would not these light when the buttons is pressed?
(Neither for AC, air recycling and and heating button for the rear passengers)

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2017, 12:23:03 PM »
In that case it sounds like you have a voltage supply fault with it in that case or the unit has packed up,I didn't realise you had a loss of lights to it when I posted above.

Offline Albireo

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2017, 12:52:32 AM »
Thanks!
.... it sounds like you have a voltage supply fault with it in that case or the unit has packed up...
That's what I'm experiencing, but I'm not sure which connector / pin gives power to the unit.
I have purchased the following wiring diagrams for this car
- Haynes .: Ford Galaxy
     (this wiring diagrams is easy to understand, but some information is missing.)
- So wird's gemacht .: VW Sharan Ford Galaxy Seat Alhambra.
    (this wiring diagrams is more complex)
This wiring diagrams give information about connector and pin number in the connector and so on.
But I have no idea where I can find the connector in the car.

The car has several faults (the central locking does not work on all doors, one electric window lift is out of function, etc.)
But - One thing I'm thinking about, is the fuse to the lights for the number plate, is something wrong with.
(I have no power on that fuse - if I check the right fuse?) But the lights on the number plate are still working....
Is the lights on the number plate, get power (12V) the wrong way, and it affects the power to the heating panel?
_______________________________________ __

When I looked on the specification for one VCDS lite reader
The price for that reader is £13 + shipping cost £10 (it's OK!) but for the lite program is the price 99 US$ (maybe cheap?)
In the specification(below) I can't see that it can handle air conditon or heater

Engine Diagnostics
  • Read & Clear ABS Faults
  • Read & Clear Airbag fault Codes
  • Clear DTC (error) code, over 7500 DTC codes with description
  • Immobiliser / Alarm Systems
  • Reset Service lights
  • Automatic Transmission
  • Car Stereo System
  • Central Locking System
  • Module Version - ID of control module coding version
  • DTC Memory - read and clear diagnostic codes
  • Actual Values - full live data access
  • Activation - supported component activation
  • Code Module - code supported modules
  • Adaptation - read/reset service light parameters, view/change block learn values
  • Basic Settings - view and change control module defaults (Ex 1.8T and newer)
  • Individual Values - read individual measuring values
  • Readiness Code - check status of emission related systems
  • Remote Control Programming - program RF (radio frequency) keys
  • Key Matching - match keys to immobiliser control module (5 digit)
Maybe you must have the full version of VCDS reader?

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2017, 08:11:53 AM »
Yes that is the correct lead, not all modules are listed in the description it's the same one as I have, DO NOT register the software it does allow more functionality but only to the modules in the software, in other words if you cannot connect to a module registering will not change it.

This lead and the downloaded software from Ross Tech should allow you to all available modules on your car EXCEPT the Engine module the 2.3 petrol engine is a Ford engine and is not compatible.

There is help in the reference library if you need help setting up VCDS.

https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/ford-galaxy-software-solutions-(vag-com-vcds-vagtacho)/#sthash.kEaveLUM.dpbs

https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/vagcom-vcds-lite-connection-problems/#sthash.DPRCKCKS.dpbs

Use your Elm still for engine faults.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

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Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2017, 07:19:50 PM »
The lite version lets you read all vag modules but unless registered for $99 then you cannot access certain features like output tests etc.

As for your fault as it is several circuits affected I would be starting in fuse box area,did it have these faults before you had the other fault with the relay?

Offline Albireo

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2017, 10:31:00 PM »
In anticipation of an ODBC measuring instrument, I have tried to analyze the electrical function of the heating panel.
But none of the books I have ("Haynes Galaxy" and "So wird's gemacht") have an electrical circuit diagram, for this particular panel and the steering motors that control the heat and air flows. (If I understand the wiring diagrams correctly).

Resume
It is problem with the heating and A/C control unit on the Galaxy 2.3 2002
It is blowing not cold / not warm at all times, and only on to the windscreen obviously.
I also cannot change the air flow from screen to anywhere else and the A/C buttons seem to do nothing at all.
I think everything has the level / mode that existed when everything stopped working.
It worked and died, a couple of times before everything was dead - all the time.
The rear cabin control unit has also died.
Now, nothing at all is lighting up. I have checked all fuses and also tried a new control unit.

But, the fan is working perfect....

Any suggestions?
Is there any wiring diagram on this part of car?
In, for example Haynes is numbers of the connector, but how is the connector look like?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2017, 11:03:43 PM »
As post above was fault present before you had relay problem or has it happened since you were in the fuse box?

Offline Albireo

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2017, 10:18:01 AM »
Thanks for your time!
As post above was fault present before you had relay problem or has it happened since you were in the fuse box?
This problem happened first. (this car have, and have had, many other electrical related errors)
  - ABS - this error was gone with change of an ABS-sensor.
  - Not all doors is locked by the central lock (I think this is one lock motor or any wire between dorr and the car body - haven't checked)
  - One side window is only working "down" (not up - may be same problem as above - not same door.)
I guess these are individual errors.

Then this, with the heat panel, occurred as an intermittent fault - sometimes OK and did not work, sometimes -
This was significantly more annoying problems than the above. But it was still no problem to driving the car
Fuses were checked / heater panel, switched to another used panel. (Was there also something wrong with this heating panel? - I have no idea)
An acute situation occurred, when the heat in the windscreen and rear window, the windshield wipers, coupe fan etc. also stopped working. (Initially as an intermittent problem).
- It felt really good, when this started to work again - (due to a relay problem.)

I do not think that the error resolves in this case, with an ODB2 error code reader. (we'll see)
The panel have still no power (no light comes on when buttons are pressed)....

I think, if the power is in the right place, the heating panel will work again...
It has been felt good, to be able to measure closer to the panel.

- Is there any fuse or electronics in the panel?
- How does a manually regulated heat work on this car?
- Is there any computer that the panel controls? (despite manually controlled heat)
- Where is it located in the car?



Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2017, 10:32:12 AM »
Despite being manual control knobs it still has electronic controls inside that operate the flap motors etc..... the control is self contained within the panel.

Have you checked for feed on the input? If memory serves correct one plug has the outputs (larger plug) the smaller plug contains the inputs red wire usually live and brown earth.
If it is similar to digital the 3rd plug is output for rear heater I think?

Offline Albireo

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2017, 09:30:01 PM »
The panel have three connectors.
I don't know the number of the connector or connections.
(and I'm not 100% sure if the color is right described below)

- One plug with 2 connections
     - Black / yellow (+12V with the ignition key is turned on)
     - Black / red (earth?)

- One plug with 5 connections (Seems to be connected to fan speed knob - which works)
     - Brown (thick) (earth?)
     - Brown/White (thick) (+12V / +8V / 0V - + 12V / + 8V / 0V depending on the position of the fan handle)
     - White
     - Yellow / red line
     - Yellow / white line

- One plug with 16x2 connections (Maybe this plug have both the input and outputs - I have no idea)

At the moment, it feels like it's still the controller for that panel, that have gave up. (on both panels)

Can "VCDS lite" show if the panel is  work or not?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2017, 10:57:29 PM »
https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/splice-joint-32/msg7309/#msg7309/

Maybe have a check of this if the fuses are ok but unit not powering?? Other than that without looking and poking around with a meter I am stumped

Offline Albireo

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2017, 10:27:19 PM »
https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/splice-joint-32/msg7309/#msg7309/

Maybe have a check of this if the fuses are ok but unit not powering?? Other than that without looking and poking around with a meter I am stumped
Now I have found the "splice joint". But the three cables was thick (about 4mm2 / each) I found no other "splice joint" in this place. I soldered these, but no difference with the panel. (Maybe it is different between RHD / LHD cars? (This car have left hand drive)

I have even run a VCDS-diagnose on this car.
First, there were 4 errors (some intermittent errors)
I made an reset, and now these errors have disappeared...

The problem has not been solved - yet

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2017, 10:39:52 PM »
If memory serves correctly there is another splice joint on other side?

Offline Albireo

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2017, 10:24:45 AM »
Thanks!
... there is another splice joint on other side?
You had right. There were many (5?) Small cables in that "splice joint" (in the right side of the car). (Now I also have solder these together)

But nothing has changed, the problem is left

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2017, 01:27:22 PM »
After some googling found this post with info from @Mirez on the other site.

http://www.fordgalaxy.org.uk/ford/index.php?/topic/18577-heater-control-relay/

Seems to be related to manual control and gives info of the inputs from fuses so you could use a meter to check voltage from fuses is ok?

Offline Albireo

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2017, 03:33:58 PM »
I have looked on this site, I have an account and it is possible to login, but I can't´read anything.
Have tried to contact some one on the site but get no answer...
When I try to open the link you gave me, I will not come anywhere ... (Have You any idea why?)

I have found something intresting. (maybe the solution?)
the 32-pol connector in the heater panel, is going to fuse 32, as going to the battery (according to Haynes)
Fuse 32 have +12V on both side, but the pin 32 on the panel have "nothing".
the fuse 32 is 5A....

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2017, 04:12:42 PM »
Here you go done screen shot of the info.


Offline Albireo

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2017, 05:46:55 PM »
Thank you!
It says almost the same thing on this site - even this from "Mirez".
...
1) Is the clock now working or not?
2) Is the rear heater putting out hot air and its just the front one that isn't?
3) As its a Zetec I think I'm right in saying its got the manual "rotary" control unit and not the LCD version?

If the clock isn't working then check Fuse32 isn't blown, it feeds the clock but also has a feed into the manual HVAC controller (strangely its not present on the Climatronic version) although its purpose isn't clear from the wiring diagram.
https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy/heater-blowing-cold-air/msg6903/#msg6903

Right now, there is no connection between.
"Fuse 32" and "Pin 32" at the panel.
"Fuse 32" and "Clock" (I do not know the pin number)
"Clock" and "Pin 32" ....

Is there any other "splice joint" to "fuse 32" similar to that I was soldered this morning?
(Did my soldering go wrong? - I did not part the cables , before I solder them.)

Does some one have a wiring diagram for the clock?

Which other devices are fed from "fuse 32" (5 A)

My first idea was to pull a new cable between a fuse and the watch, as well as between a fuse and the heating panel, but now I don´t know if it is so clever...

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2017, 07:04:15 PM »
If it was me I would solder in a new wire from that f32 splice and run it up to the heater panel,it will still be off that 5a fuse so protected and probably easier to run from there rather than fuse board.

As for the clock you could run one there from heater panel or just join new wire to existing on the loom to heater and it should feed the clock aswell.

Offline Albireo

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2017, 07:20:43 PM »
Thanks!
But it's very hard to split the 32-pin cable, near the connector to the panel and find the right cable ...
I have no idea which of the 6 connections in the clock as shall be +12V

Now I found someone who has trouble with the cables to the doors / central locking or back fog light (but it got the fuse 32 to melt ..)

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2017, 08:25:15 PM »
If you tap off one of the wires at splice run up to wire on rear of heater and splice it on the clock should power from that without having to remove clock plug.

I would say different fault on yours as fuse 32 is in tact you have just lost power from cable that comes off it somewhere.

Offline Albireo

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2017, 06:28:30 PM »
First of all, I want to thank everyone who has been a support and help in this problem.

The solution became an extra cable for the heating panel and the clock (red and white).
The extra cable to the clock was only about 30 cm, from one side of "Y" of the big cable bundle, behind the fuse box, to the other side of "Y". (Cable branch).

Maybe there's another splice (similar next to the chair) inside this thick cable bundle at the fuse box, which causes the power from fuse 32 is spread to different directions?

Now the clock and the heating panel work... Wonderful!
Thanks again!

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2017, 10:58:52 PM »
Glad it's all working again.

So what was the fix did you repair the existing wire or run a new one in?

Offline Albireo

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2017, 10:18:17 PM »
First, I "opened" the cable (32-connections), at the panel in the middle of the car, and searched the "red/white" cable. Made a test, if this cable get 12V - the panel began to work.
Then I followed the "red/white" cable from the fuse32 a little bit (1-2dm) and solder the cable to the panel. (now it worked (But the clock did not work).
Then I followed the cable from the clock, all the way below the dashboard.
(it's not easy to pull a new cable in the same way)
Under the dashboard, on the best place, I opened the clock cable and search after the Red/White cable.
There I soldered one part of the new cable, and the other to the same place as the cable to the panel.
Now the clock also works.

I could certainly have done as you suggested - a cable to the split joint I soldered, that the side of the front chair. (But I think, it has been more difficult to install the new cable)

Offline slowandthedubious

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2019, 08:59:22 PM »
Just to resurrect this post - I had exactly the same problems but in a sharan where the stereo stopped working aswell and the manual controls for the heater.

The problem was caused by the common fault with the spliced wiring down the edge of the passenger seat. This is linked to the issues with fuse 32.

The spliced wiring appears not to have been soldered, and was held together with tape from the factory. Take the door seal off the bottom, remove the trim panel
And open up the wiring behind the seatbelt pretensioner. Pull the tape off the red and white wiring bunch and solder them together - all my problems disappeared!

Offline brianh

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Re: Problems with manual heat regulation
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2019, 09:54:49 PM »
Just to resurrect this post - I had exactly the same problems but in a sharan where the stereo stopped working aswell and the manual controls for the heater.

The problem was caused by the common fault with the spliced wiring down the edge of the passenger seat. This is linked to the issues with fuse 32.

The spliced wiring appears not to have been soldered, and was held together with tape from the factory. Take the door seal off the bottom, remove the trim panel
And open up the wiring behind the seatbelt pretensioner. Pull the tape off the red and white wiring bunch and solder them together - all my problems disappeared!

It seems thats how they all are - the problem usually occurs when the rear washer starts leaking and the splice then gets wet as well causing it to corrode. Why they weren't done better is anyones guess.

 

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