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Author Topic: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?  (Read 1432 times)

Offline Lemmy

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Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« on: September 25, 2018, 06:14:24 PM »
I'm new to this forum, apologies if this has been answered  before. My secondary rear diesel powered heater on my VW Sharan 2004 Carat 130 hp has been smoking badly for some time. I realise that it could be various problems to fix, however, can I just block the fuel line to stop the heater working,(it's not anyway), and therefore stop the burn off? Getting really antisocial now

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2018, 10:36:43 PM »
Remove fuse 12 from the fuse box, that will disable it easy.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline Lemmy

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2018, 10:56:28 PM »
Chrispb thanks bud I'll give it a go, hopefully that's the last time I gas the missus! Cheers!

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2018, 08:25:23 AM »
I don't know how long you have had the car but you will realize as the weather turns colder that these cars take an age to get hot and would benefit from being sorted.
If you haven't got a VCDS lite lead to scan for fault codes would advise you get one, for under a tenner you can save money by diagnosing faults yourself and is a good companion if you can do your own DIY/repairs.

There's a lot of info in the knowledge base about the Eberspächer heater and installing/operating VCDS.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline Lemmy

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2018, 11:21:56 PM »
Wanted to say that unfortunately removing the no.12 fuse from the fuseboard didn't work. Heater still kicked in this morning( bit chilly), even when heaters not turned on. Can anyone go through steps to disconnect under unit or give me the correct fuse to remove? Model is Sharan Carat 130hp 2004reg 1.9tdi diesel. Thanks.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2018, 07:15:23 AM »
You could get underneath the nearside rear door area and unplug the heater,or open bonnet and on nearside there is the temp sensor clipped to the wiper linkage frame. Unplug that and it will stop the heater from running aswell.

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2018, 08:41:38 AM »
Strange fuse 12 should be the power supply to the heater for 2004, wondering if some mod has been done?
Unplugging the heater as johnnyroper is probably best but you may need to drop the heater down to access the multiplug unless your hands are really small
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline Tezerez

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2018, 03:48:15 PM »
My December 2003 130 Galaxy used fuse 12 to stop the heater. At the time did lots of stop start deliveries and it became a regular little Vesuvius,  people used to wave and ask if I knew my car was on fire, no fire just smoke!

Offline christiant

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2018, 06:40:03 PM »
I have a question. Mine hasn't worked forever due to faulty plug. I want to sort it out. If it starts smoking badly, is that the case of debris and dirt building up? Wouldn't a clean sort this out?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2018, 07:59:19 PM »
No not usually on older units it can be glow plug issue,gauze around glow plug kaput or the injector itself.

On later type ones typically it’s caused by either glow plug or the controller has suffered heat damage.


Mine was older type and cables had corroded by plug so I removed plug and fed the wires in to sill and soldered them to the loom,new glow plug and gauze sorted it out. I did have to replace the fan at a later date (thanks Chrispb) if you replace gauze make sure it goes in correct as the seam in wrong position will cause plumes of smoke.

Offline christiant

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2018, 09:44:28 PM »
Mine is a 2002 and has the Ebersbächer dont know which type, but I have a code for faulty plug. It's a 2002 so I would suspect should be the early type, I will stick a new plug in it for the sake of testing. I have the manual controls for heating etc. not climate control and have a button for the heater. At what temp does it kick in and does the button override it?

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2018, 12:19:54 AM »
Unless you have a display on roof by interior mirror the is automatic, the thermo switch will allow the heater to start if the outside temp is below 10 deg c and engine temp is not above 75 deg c.
there's not normally a switch to control the booster unless someone has fitted one or like I said initially it has independent heating.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline christiant

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2018, 08:15:03 AM »
Mine has a factory fitted switch near the AC and recirculation button.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2018, 08:17:57 AM »
It won’t be factory fitted switch for boost heater,someone will have fitted it to bypass the temp switch. I did this to mine so I could run it during warmer months to make sure it still functioned when cold enough to need it.

As said above the boost heaters are entirely automatic from the factory

Offline Tezerez

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2018, 03:57:33 PM »
I think you will find that is the switch to make the rear area heater operate, which is then controlled by the dial over the rear door. The secondary heater does not have a switch to turn it on or off manually,  it's built into the system. It's a heater for the coolant system only, not for the cabin (although having the coolant hotter in the winter means a better heater).

Offline christiant

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2018, 09:33:52 PM »
Mine is non UK, I might be wrong but I will take a pic. It has a button between AC and Recirculation, with a logo on it like heat coming from beneath vehicle. This button might be for something else but when I connect VCDS and it is cold enough and I press it, it immediately tries to fire up the heater and in my case trows a code for the plug.

Offline christiant

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2018, 07:25:53 AM »
Sorry for the silly question, I might be wrong and the heater might be trying to kick in automatically but what is the button between AC and Recirc for?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2018, 09:47:29 AM »
Is that the button to turn rear cabin heating on?

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2018, 12:17:05 PM »
Not seen manual controls in a MK2 but from when I had a MK1 that had a button with the heat symbol on the dash, but all that done was isolate the rear controls located over the L/H door pillar.

Just looked in the MK2 handbook and it says switch for auxiliary rear heating                                                                 
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline christiant

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2018, 05:15:55 PM »
The switch seems not an override as the diy ones are, seems like it allows the heater to be switched on only in certain temperature ranges. I don't know what is the point since it will come on automatically anyway and I have no idea how exactly all that works, perhaps it allows the heater to come on in different temp ranges rather than the ones which fire it up automatically. It still is quite warm so I cant test it unless I wire another switch to bypass the sensor or wake up very early...

Offline brianh

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2018, 06:26:54 PM »
I think you will find it switches the rear blower heater fan on or off. thats what the same switch on my mk1 did. the MK2 with the climate control panel does it all from the front, the ones with manual controls have two dials above the rear lefthand door, that switch will isolate those controls from doing anything.

There is a heater/blower in the lefthand rear quarter panel (in the boot area or 3rd row of seats), Those dials control that heater. I suspect from whats been said there is also another unit underneath (the booster heater) that heats the coolant only. This would then feed both the front and rear heaters with warmer coolant than they would otherwise get (theres approx 9 litres of fluid in the galaxy cooling system, so theres not enough heat from the engine to keep it warm enough when its really cold for interior heating). They are two separate units (the rear one does heating only unless you have the dual zone A/C fitted, which most don't have).

Offline christiant

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2018, 08:55:05 PM »
Thanks, I finally figured it out now, [THANKS] my rear auxiliary blower heaters don't work anyway for some reason I tried with button off and on and turned the controls at rear, but nothing happens.
My Galaxy is strange because I have manual controls and my AC which I fixed recently too is not dual zone and it only has pipes going to the front evaporator core. Most of the MK2s I have seen have climate control, so not much info or manuals on mine. I am familiar with aux heaters, but cant figure out the control, however I found the ambient temp sensor, so I will try to bypass that to test the heater. I found instructions how to do that on one with climate control, would it be the same on mine? I have a new plug for the heater as VCDS says glow plug short to ground.

I also found that removing the EGR cooler makes it warm up even slower and in traffic at low revs, the temp drops right down even if it already has been warmed up. If someone is planning remove it, the heater should work because it definitely runs cooler without it as the exhaust gasses heat the coolant through the cooler. The problem is where I am located in the morning it is about 2c, then by noon is over 20c so that gives me a small window to work on it. I survive the mornings only with the heated seats and front window demister and it's not even winter yet  ;D

Offline brianh

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2018, 09:55:24 PM »
I believe you will find the EGR cooler is designed to heat up the coolant when the engine is cold as much as remove heat from the EGR input when its hot (in other words they do help with speeding up the heating getting up to temperature).

With the rear heater its fairly simple - set the fan and temp on the dials in the back, switch the switch on the panel on (would guess it will either light up or stay in not sure) and it should start making noise and heat or cool air comes out of the vents in the bottom of the boot. Would guess if its not doing that either its been disconnected for some reason or its broken (could be the front panel button doesn't work rather than a fault in the back, equally might be just its been unplugged for some reason, only thing you can do is start investigating).

The booster heater will still help the front heater get warmer though if you fix it, note that the run on pump needs to work as well (this won't generate an error if its failed for the pump, but might trigger overheat errors in the booster heater). You will find that near the expansion bottle on the bulkhead, it should run with the ignition switched on, and remain running for a few minutes after its stopped as well. If it doesn't then have a look on here, there should be some instructions to fit new brushes to it here somewhere. Its used to help pump water round to the rear section of the car via the booster heater and rear heater.

The diesels are known to run fairly cool, thats the whole reason the booster heater is on them so your description of the lack of heat from it sounds about what I'd expect.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2018, 11:03:11 PM »
If it drops temp when stationary even after reaching operating temp I would suspect the thermostat is weak aswell. My old 1.9 would take longer to heat up without the egr cooler but once warm would maintain the heat even at idle.

Sounds like you have a few problems on the coolant side to me.

Thermostat on engine
Run on pump not running
Boost heat glow plug.

As for the air temp sensor you can just bridge it,or like I did and run the wires through a switch mounted in to a blank on dash to control it yourself.

Offline christiant

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2018, 06:40:36 AM »
Did thermostat and fitted OEM and fixed run on pump including a new water pump with metal propeller when I did the head job, so all good there. Heater doesn't work due to the plug as I tested the codes with vcds it says plug is dead. The plug itself is an easy job but I need to bypass the sensor. I am looking for some insight on that job, I see it shares the engines coolant sensor, which obviously I should leave alone and then it has it's own ambient air temp sensor, Is it that I need to bridge out with a switch? Can the switch be used sometimes but the sensor kept, so It will still work automatically, but when I decide to put it on manually I will have that option. I am expecting more problems than just the plug and I hear the Eberspacher is more temperamental than Webasto heaters.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2018, 07:29:51 AM »
On a 2002 you should have the early more reliable type of heater so hopefully the plug will sort it.

As for the switch yes you can fit a switch but still keep temp sensor. The wiring from sensor can be tapped in to and a switch fitted but plug on sensor left so you can use switch or leave it automatic.

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2018, 03:31:31 PM »
Give the casing screws a good soaking in penetrating fluid before attempting to dismantle as they break very easily.

https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-common-faults-and-problems/galaxy-mk1-mk2-replacing-booster-heater-glow-plug-on-d3wz-d5wz/
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

The FordMPV.com Forum - The free forum for questions and answers relating to the Ford Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max

Offline christiant

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2018, 08:01:57 PM »
Thanks I will give it a go next week. Are the plugs interchangeable or just different types? It looks like a good idea to use the ceramic one. What is the best way to route the wires for the switch and locate it?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Secondary diesel heater smoking badly can I block fuel pipe?
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2018, 08:56:28 PM »
Yes the ceramic can be fitted to older type you will just need to fit the wiring in to plug as ceramic has wire off it where as older type has a bit holding a crimp on.

I traced the wiring to the loom by engine ECU and ran it in to the car via a spare grommet on nearside bulkhead and up to the centre of dashboard.

 

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