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Author Topic: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues  (Read 1053 times)

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2020, 10:30:19 AM »
That is a lot of adjustment when I did mine it was a small grub screw locked with a nut that is in the body and not a rod.
Canít make out in picture what that rod is, does it operate the VNT from the actuator?
Yes but ignore this one, donut here had it in my head it was pushing instead of pulling - readjusting now.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2020, 10:32:54 AM »
Haha easy done, reckon it would have done all manner of strange things adjusted like that

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2020, 10:51:04 AM »
Haha it would indeed, now readjusted its pretty close to the original position, have also done the first vac test to check vacuum level/operation.  You will have to excuse my vac gauge, it does not return fully to 0 but hopefully good enough to see the result.

https://youtu.be/uxdbHYQbObM
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 10:54:15 AM by barlidge »

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2020, 11:36:08 AM »
Video showing vac applied, as the vac test under the car seemed to be ok I ran a pipe from the vac pump directly to the turbo. Apologies for the poor video it gets better in the second half, when I play it it media player its clear but looks out of focus in youtube.

https://youtu.be/FgjcFbqg5qQ

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2020, 12:02:03 PM »
Is that not holding vac or is your gauge faulty? Seems you pump it up and vac drops back by itself

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2020, 12:12:52 PM »
No my gauge doesn't hold a vacuum if you release the handle, you have to keep it squeezed and even then it doesn't always hold, in the vid I was pumping it it and releasing it and then pumping up again though so not sure if that's what you are seeing.

When I was underneath the car I did hold a vacuum on it to make sure it did hold though.

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2020, 01:46:33 PM »
One of the jobs on the list is to remove and clean the inlet manifold, I just did the throttle body but the manifold is also looking a bit grim - is there any mileage in the theory that the turbo is creating boost but its restricted getting into the engine hence the corrections?

Also is there a VW version of Ford' TIS?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2020, 07:09:01 PM »
No luck with adjusting turbo then?
In theory a coked up manifold could restrict flow and cause excessive pressure build up that MAP is detecting. However I feel it would have to be a massive amount of carbon to the point car is seriously lacking power etc. But I stand to be corrected

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #58 on: August 27, 2020, 07:40:11 PM »
Late to the party on this one! Its going over the prescribed limit when boosting, however the ECU is still able to lower the boost level before you hit the upper limit which is why its not flagging an over boost code.

The surge is because it's controllable by the ECU (as opposed to being stuck such as VNT vanes) which is why its able to reduce the power enough to come below the line. However 'the issue' isn't reacting instantly which is why you are getting this surging as the ECU increases the level of retardation and then has to reverse the effect as the boost suddenly drops away, essentially its stuck in a cycle of over and under correcting.

1) The split in the EGR pipe is a very likely candidate as it will be allowing un-metered air in/out and but because its such a small pipe, it'll be slowly enough to not be an instant reaction.
2) N75 is the next likely candidate, the ECU will be directing the valve to back off boost so if its sticky or the vac pipework to/from it has a split then that will slow the rate of change.
3) The VNT central spindle that drives the vanes could also be on the verge of sticking although less likely as normally the vanes will clog way before you experience that.
4) Finally if the turbo itself is badly worn then you'll get these symptoms as it takes longer to reach boost so again the ECU will try harder to get to boost which then arrives later then expected so it has to back off.
 

No luck with adjusting turbo then?
In theory a coked up manifold could restrict flow and cause excessive pressure build up that MAP is detecting. However I feel it would have to be a massive amount of carbon to the point car is seriously lacking power etc. But I stand to be corrected

No, unfortunately neither the correct adjustment or cleaning the throttle body had much affect.  Cleaning and replacing the 2nd screw in the MAP and more so changing N75 did change the characteristics quite a lot, it's much more lively and responsive now than before , especially at low revs where it was sluggish before and with most normal driving you wouldn't think anything was wrong, the issue seems to noticeably cut in just over 2000 and go away around 3000 revs. The vanes don't appear to be sticking and the actuator seems to be working fine.  I've checked the vac pipes and from what I can see they are fine, might go over those again tomorrow though but some are buried at the back.

I'm starting to think Mark's point 4 above might have pinpointed the issue and looking at the graphs the boost often seemed late coming in which would support that but I don't have a graph of a good unit to compare against.  I've just had a job for next week postponed so while now is not good financially it might be an opportune time to change it if that's definitely whats needed.  I just wish I could find some concrete evidence so I'm confident a replacement will cure it.

Does anyone have a vac diagram showing the vac source?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2020, 10:42:51 PM »
Not entirely sure of set up on the 2.0 but when I removed EGR on mine I went with simplified set up and used this info.

https://uk-mkivs.net/topic/50427-pd-vac-line-simplification-n18-n239-valve-delete/

When I had an A3 with BKC engine it had different vac system with a vac control box like this not sure if sharan of similar vintage also used this set up.

https://workshop-manuals.com/skoda/octavia-mk2/drive_unit/1.9/77_kw_tdi_pd_engine/exhaust_turbocharger_g-charger/charge-air_system_with_exhaust_gas_turbocharger_part_1/connection_diagram_for_vacuum_hoses_(octavia_ii)/engine_with_identification_characters_bkc_bxe/


Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2020, 09:31:14 AM »
Thanks Johnny for that info.

So is it the consensus that the turbo is failing?  If I order this morning I can get one for tomorrow and weather permitting get it done over the weekend.

Offline SirDavidAlhambra

  • Sir David Alhambra.
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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #61 on: August 28, 2020, 09:36:30 AM »
With all these sorts of issues, in my own experience it almost always comes down to the turbo.

People check EGR valves, vacuum pipes, digital readouts, they change MAP sensors, MAF sensors, air filters, fuel filters, clutch switches, gearbox switches, adjust actuator ARMS, swap the ECU, change the injectors, put potions in the tank, kick the tyres, change the tyres, change the exhaust, give the car a paint job, consult the mountain man, perform mystical rituals when the planets are in alignment... anything except change the ruddy turbo... and then they eventually change the turbo and it fixes it.

It's always the ruddy turbo (in my own experience).  ::)

Here's hoping that does the job for you...

 [NE1] [GL]
« Last Edit: August 28, 2020, 09:39:25 AM by SirDavidAlhambra »
I drive a Seat Alhambra 1.9Tdi which has 115bhp and an automatic gearbox.

I am happy to help you with all your questions. I am not a qualified mechanic but seem to be better at fixing my car than even the most experienced garages.

I have lots of friends here and very much enjoy talking with you all.

Always remember, a motor car is a serious tool and should be treated with respect. Put your safety first, always.

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #62 on: August 28, 2020, 09:43:01 AM »
With all these sorts of issues, in my own experience it almost always comes down to the turbo.

People check EGR valves, vacuum pipes, digital readouts, they change MAP sensors, MAF sensors, air filters, fuel filters, adjust actuator ARMS, swap the ECU, change the injectors, put potions in the tank, kick the tyres, consult the mountain man, perform mystical rituals when the planets are in alignment... anything except change the ruddy turbo... and then they eventually change the turbo and it fixes it.

It's always the ruddy turbo (in my own experience).  ::)

Here's hoping that does the job for you...

 [NE1] [GL]

Agreed and I've had it before and these symptoms have been leading me to second guess that but there's not many other options now though and although its drivaeable and may last a while I'd rather change it now if needs be rather than have it blow on me in the middle of winter while I'm in the middle of a big job.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2020, 10:10:31 AM »
You seem To have eliminated the usual suspects so does indeed look like turbo replacement time. Good idea to clean inlet while itís off aswell.
The turbo on the 1.9 needed to be extracted from down below with offside driveshaft moved off I recall correctly. If I let manifold is off they you can get it out the top so can kill 2 birds with one stone.

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2020, 10:51:59 AM »
You seem To have eliminated the usual suspects so does indeed look like turbo replacement time. Good idea to clean inlet while itís off aswell.
The turbo on the 1.9 needed to be extracted from down below with offside driveshaft moved off I recall correctly. If I let manifold is off they you can get it out the top so can kill 2 birds with one stone.

Thanks, turbo ordered for tomorrow, I will be doing inlet at the same time but will also remove the driveshaft as that's also on the list to check the condition of the splines and swap over witht the Galaxy one if they are interchangeable as I've already replaced that one.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #65 on: August 28, 2020, 12:08:20 PM »
When you have turbo out just as I am curious are you going to whip exhaust housing off to check what the VNT is like and also take CHRA out to look at the vanes? Be nice to find something concrete wrong with it

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2020, 12:13:06 PM »
Oh indeed, I'm hoping to get it out today before I collect the new one tomorrow :)

Offline SirDavidAlhambra

  • Sir David Alhambra.
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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #67 on: August 28, 2020, 02:05:40 PM »
could u maybe take piccies and stuff, would be really interesting to see how u do this if it's not too much trouble

 [THANKS]
I drive a Seat Alhambra 1.9Tdi which has 115bhp and an automatic gearbox.

I am happy to help you with all your questions. I am not a qualified mechanic but seem to be better at fixing my car than even the most experienced garages.

I have lots of friends here and very much enjoy talking with you all.

Always remember, a motor car is a serious tool and should be treated with respect. Put your safety first, always.

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #68 on: August 28, 2020, 02:14:31 PM »
Of course  ;D  Any references to measuring points and I will report as much detail as possible.  Just got it up on the ramps to get started and ...

7074-0

Just my luck with this car - its the gift that just keeps on giving  ::)

I was spoilt with the old Galaxy, miss driving the old thing around, was really the lowest maintenance car I've ever owned.

Offline SirDavidAlhambra

  • Sir David Alhambra.
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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #69 on: August 28, 2020, 03:10:23 PM »
Hehe, yes it's raining here too and I'm hoping to do my fuel filter this evening (having spent most of yesterday changing light bulbs on a ford focus!)

Those two cars look absolutely beautiful. Really lovely looking cars, once we've got this hunting issue out the way I'm sure u will have many years of joy from that stunning looking and highly practical vehicle

 [drive]
I drive a Seat Alhambra 1.9Tdi which has 115bhp and an automatic gearbox.

I am happy to help you with all your questions. I am not a qualified mechanic but seem to be better at fixing my car than even the most experienced garages.

I have lots of friends here and very much enjoy talking with you all.

Always remember, a motor car is a serious tool and should be treated with respect. Put your safety first, always.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #70 on: August 28, 2020, 03:48:49 PM »
Of course  ;D  Any references to measuring points and I will report as much detail as possible.  Just got it up on the ramps to get started and ...

(Attachment Link)

Just my luck with this car - its the gift that just keeps on giving  ::)

I was spoilt with the old Galaxy, miss driving the old thing around, was really the lowest maintenance car I've ever owned.

Thatís my luck aswell mate I took mrs car apart last week doing a suspension overhaul nice dry weather pressed bushes etc out and in with intention of refitting all following day. Rain of biblical proportions the whole day but I had to get it done as she outright refuses to drive my car

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #71 on: August 28, 2020, 06:27:38 PM »
Well rain never stopped play and its off ...  ;D

https://youtu.be/m8za645htD4

I'm no expert in the finer points of turbo build, there doesn't seem to be any end float that I can feel, it is a little sooty and the vanes are all free with a fair bit of play in the mechanism, not sure if that's normal or not?

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #72 on: August 28, 2020, 06:46:10 PM »
I don't suppose 2 bolt missing from the inlet manifold will have helped things at all  :(

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #73 on: August 28, 2020, 10:44:47 PM »
I donít remember mine having the movement like that when I stripped it. Fingers crossed the turbo sorts it.

Manifold leak certainly wonít help either as boost pressure can be lost aswell as letting in metered air in.

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #74 on: August 29, 2020, 08:56:32 AM »
The other manifold bolts except one were barely hand tight so I'm inclined to believe the turbo was still functioning and the issue was mainly caused but the air leak from the manifold.

However, the turbo is off now and I dont know its history as people have obviously been poking around with it, the vane linkage looks worn and if it's the original its well in the mileage window for a new one and although this one came off quite easily I have no desire to do it again, knowing my luck it would be in the middle of winter in the middle of a big job.

So will find some replacement bolts and pick up the new turbo and get it all back together with a cleanup on all the pipework/manifold etc.

Offline SirDavidAlhambra

  • Sir David Alhambra.
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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #75 on: August 29, 2020, 12:21:54 PM »
So impressive... and a very wise approach.

A great philosopher once said ďnever skimp on parts for it is your time and effort in changing duff units which is where the real cost liesĒ
I drive a Seat Alhambra 1.9Tdi which has 115bhp and an automatic gearbox.

I am happy to help you with all your questions. I am not a qualified mechanic but seem to be better at fixing my car than even the most experienced garages.

I have lots of friends here and very much enjoy talking with you all.

Always remember, a motor car is a serious tool and should be treated with respect. Put your safety first, always.

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #76 on: August 30, 2020, 10:12:04 PM »
Thanks David, unfortunately the problem persists  :'(  If anything the hunting might be slightly softer but the only really noticeable difference was it took longer to warm up and the temperature feel of the hoses/rad after a run was more in keeping with how my old galaxy was, slightly tepid - I guess this could be attributed to fixing the unmetered leakage at the inlet manifold which was not secured properly therefore not running as hot due to incorrect mixtures.

To sum up:
The problem is hunting/hesitation between 2000 and 3000 revs under load/acceleration.
Traces show the the delivered air pressure as fluctuating up and down at these times.
It is barely noticeable when cold.

Measures taken so far:
New N75 valve
Swapped MAP sensor for different unit.
New turbo.
Manifold cleaned.
Cleaned and check pipes leading to and from air cooler.
EGR blanked off at both ends of EGR cooler inlet and EGR cooler outlet to manifold.
EGR valve cleaned and checked.
Throttle body cleaned.
Checked VAC pipework for splits - none found.

So the only things can think which might be rare possibilities are:
Vacuum pump
Bad ECU map (maybe by previous owner)

I'm all ears for any other possibilities :)

The VAC circuits are fairly simple on this one (attached)


Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #77 on: August 30, 2020, 10:50:45 PM »
Vac pump easy to check just plumb your vac gauge in to the pipe that goes to reservoir and see what vac it is reading. You want upwards or 20hg on idle. Not unheard of the res in cam cover can leak so you could try bypassing it although not convinced it is vac problem personally as it needs vac to give max boost. N75 drops vac off to lower boost so in theory low vac would cause low boost not over boost.
Itís an odd fault as you have checked or changed pretty much everything now,however it is acting different with a replacement turbo so that poses the question if it is turbo related and replacement (assuming recon) has not been set up correctly or is it different now you fixed the boost leaks?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #78 on: August 30, 2020, 10:53:15 PM »
Thinking about it low vac might play a part as n75 tries to control boost based on set parameters for full vac but turbo acts differently dropping vnt further than expected so ECU then tries to counter that????

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #79 on: August 30, 2020, 11:03:32 PM »
Vac pump easy to check just plumb your vac gauge in to the pipe that goes to reservoir and see what vac it is reading. You want upwards or 20hg on idle. Not unheard of the res in cam cover can leak so you could try bypassing it although not convinced it is vac problem personally as it needs vac to give max boost. N75 drops vac off to lower boost so in theory low vac would cause low boost not over boost.
Itís an odd fault as you have checked or changed pretty much everything now,however it is acting different with a replacement turbo so that poses the question if it is turbo related and replacement (assuming recon) has not been set up correctly or is it different now you fixed the boost leaks?

The turbo was a new Garrett one from Euro Car Parts, I did message Essex Turbos as had a good one from them 10 years ago (cough cough) but never got a reply and Euro could do next day which meant I could get it done over the weekend.  The main difference seems to be the running temperature but my gut feeling is fixing the loose manifold has probably improve the mixture rate which may have reduced hot running.  I haven't done a new trace yet but driving wise the fault is fairly unchanged.

So the pipe going into the cam cover is just a reservoir?  I figured it might be some kind of timing advance, do you know if the reservoir is accessible under the cam cover?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2020, 11:06:11 PM by barlidge »

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #80 on: August 31, 2020, 07:24:52 AM »
Yes itís just a res in cam cover,not seen a vw one but my bmw cam cover is same set up and itís moulded inside. Whole cover would need changing if thatís at fault.

You can run without the res itís only real function is to store vac so you can run tests with engine off.

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #81 on: August 31, 2020, 04:15:26 PM »
I've tested the reservoir and that holds a vacuum.  So I extended the pipe feeding the reservoir to the vac gauge and ran it into the car for another run which was interesting, on idle its 30 or above as that how high my gauge goes - on acceleration you see very sharp dips in the vacuum to around 20 and then is shoots straight back up again which coincides with the hunting, this only happens on acceleration and not overrun where the vacuum is stable.

My thinking is that the sharp dips would be the activation of N75 and therefore rules out the mechanical vacuum side of things and it must be a control issue?

Any thoughts welcome, I'm running out of ideas now  :(

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #82 on: August 31, 2020, 08:19:13 PM »
Seems quite a variation in vac to me unless the n75 utilises vac close to the reservoir. Try Tíing in to vac pipe where it originates (think it takes off from brake servo pipe) and see if you have the same sort of variations

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #83 on: August 31, 2020, 10:38:42 PM »
Yes it tees off just behind the fuel filter, I did wonder about testing it there but the piece of spare pipe I have wasn't long enough, will get a longer piece of vac pipe and do that and also repeat the previous test with the reservoir back in line as a comparison.

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #84 on: September 01, 2020, 10:01:55 AM »
While kangerooing up the A1 into London this morning it dawned on me, something I should have checked earlier, possibly collapsed/blocked Cat, what coming out of the exhaust doesnít feel right.

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #85 on: September 01, 2020, 10:14:03 PM »
While kangerooing up the A1 into London this morning it dawned on me, something I should have checked earlier, possibly collapsed/blocked Cat, what coming out of the exhaust doesnít feel right.

Undecided on this.

2 hour drive home, London traffic then blast down the A1 - pulled up on drive and got ramps out and straight up on them.  I was expecting to not be able to touch the exhaust but it wasn't that hot, the front of the Cat was significantly hotter to the touch than the back which seems indicative of a non working/blocked Cat.  The back I could easily undo the bolts while the front I had let go every few minutes as a little too hot to hold onto, however ...

It's not collapsed or broken up, I have a hoover with blow function and tried that in both directions, it seemed to pass that air with with no restriction, shining a light through was hit and miss but that is possibly just down to the type of light and the long narrow passages that wont transmit light very well.

Given the temperature difference of a working Cat should apparently be hotter at the back than the front due to the chemical reaction I'm assuming this is non functional regardless of if its restricted or not so with not much to lose it first had a blast through with the hose pipe from both directions and its in a bucket with a solution of soda crystals and good old fairy.

Maybe that will be enough to see a difference in performance to gauge if I'm on the right track, in the morning will rinse and dry it and pop it back on and then test it on the way to pick up some vacuum hose for the other tests.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 10:22:36 PM by barlidge »

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #86 on: September 01, 2020, 11:57:29 PM »
Not familiar with the 2.0pd set up but has it hit a dpf?
Is there a chance any other exhaust section is restricted?

Like you say the cat shouldnít be hotter on inlet than outlet and to be considerably cooler outlet side does suggest a non functioning/blocked cat or blockage further down. Could you leave inlet loose to allow gasses to escape as a way of testing for system blockage? In theory if itís restricted and you introduce a leak the engine should perform better.

Offline vectrac20tsri

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #87 on: September 03, 2020, 05:00:55 AM »
The 2.0 is a 8v PD I believe, If you can get a copy of your map I can check it over for you and let you know if it's standard and delete any fault codes if you do away with the solenoid.

Have you done a smoke test just to check for leaks? in my experience there's not normally a hesitation and can be heard but a smaller leak may cause issues and they use those silly clips for boost pipes,

use the right MAP sensor, although the 1.9 from factory uses the MAF for calculations there is a linearization for the MAP sensor which will be different from say 2.5 - 3.0 bar MAP sensor

I was told on the 1.9 to make sure the set screw is close to the right setting is use group 11 in basic settings and see the difference in mbar, the engine will go from full vac to 0 vac while revving to 1400rpm.

I also recommend use diesel purge from liquid moly, this stuff is great and not a gimmick, Bit awkward as you need to loop the feed and return ports of the diesel filter and feed the engine directly from the can / container, put a small inline filter into the feed as the return will have a lot of carbon crap, I fitted ARL injectors to my AUY and they were knocking due to sitting around for a while, driving it did nothing but this stuff completely cleaned them out and fixed the knocking 100%.

You can also log fuelling / injectors ect to see if there is any abnormalities.

Offline SirDavidAlhambra

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #88 on: September 04, 2020, 07:27:05 AM »
That diesel purge does seems to have excellent reviews

Iíve been racking my brain and just canít think what could be behind this mysterious problem

I know this might sound weird, but are we still sure itís something to do with the engine and not for example a rubbing brake or something weird with the suspension causing it to lurch? Does it do the lurching when u go up very steep hills?
I drive a Seat Alhambra 1.9Tdi which has 115bhp and an automatic gearbox.

I am happy to help you with all your questions. I am not a qualified mechanic but seem to be better at fixing my car than even the most experienced garages.

I have lots of friends here and very much enjoy talking with you all.

Always remember, a motor car is a serious tool and should be treated with respect. Put your safety first, always.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #89 on: September 04, 2020, 08:50:19 AM »
The logs of the boost are pretty conclusive with it being a problem with engine related stuff.

Offline SirDavidAlhambra

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #90 on: September 04, 2020, 09:15:43 AM »
Phew, ok so weíve narrowed it down to that thankfully... where do we go from here. Could it be something to do with hoses, that sort of thing?
I drive a Seat Alhambra 1.9Tdi which has 115bhp and an automatic gearbox.

I am happy to help you with all your questions. I am not a qualified mechanic but seem to be better at fixing my car than even the most experienced garages.

I have lots of friends here and very much enjoy talking with you all.

Always remember, a motor car is a serious tool and should be treated with respect. Put your safety first, always.

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #91 on: September 06, 2020, 08:05:02 PM »
Work went a bit crazy this last week so haven't had much time but here is the latest, I'l try and keep it as short as possible.

Breathing:
CAT - cleaning was inconclusive so figured it was past its best anyway and knocked the insides out - it took away some of the flat spots but wasn't the fault.
Rest of exhaust - have also eliminated that by disconnecting from the rear of empty CAT and running with no exhaust, have also removed and put inspection camera in flexi piece between turbo and CAT.
Intercooler - have disconnected both hoses and run the hoover on blow function through both directions, no restrictions or fluid in there.
Airbox/filter - ran for a short distance with lid removed from air box therefore eliminating air filter and box.

As all the rest of the pipes, throttle body and manifold were cleaned before I think the above eliminates it being a breathing issue.

Vacuum:
Connected vacuum gauge at T piece just after vacuum pump - saw the same sharp dips as before that coincide with hunting, drops to around 28 with reservoir connected and 25 withit blocked off.
Inserted a T piece by the turbo actuator - same sharp dips that coincide with the overboost, down to nearly 0 in the dips.

I'm not sure if these dips are a cause or a symptom.

You may recall I mentioned it overheated 3 weeks ish ago, at the time the cracked heater matrix was replaced, the system flushed with rad flush and all has seemed well on that front since (also had a sniff test done at the time).  Well on Friday evening the temperature rose again, same symptoms as before, no circulation to heater or radiator (stat has already been replaced).  This time I have noticed the system is pressuring up quite quickly, no sign of water in the oil or anything other than rust in the coolant.

So to my mind there has to be a problem with the head gasket/head, not sure if the issues are linked or individual but that probably has to take priority over the hunting and in the next week will probably be removing the head.  I'm not sure which way I'll go yet as I still have the gearbox issue, I did speak to darkside developments and they seem to think its syncro from the symptoms.  I need to check if the galaxy box is the same - if it is then I may just get the AC degassed and pull the front end of and lift the engine and box out as a whole and do the head and box in one go with it out of the vehicle which might be a whole lot easier.

David - 3 of the four corners have already had the springs, shocks & front wishbones swapped over from the galaxy as I replace all that at the beginning of the year, just need to get round to the fourth corner, dont think any of the brakes are binding.

vectrac20tsri - Thank you for that offer, I may well take you up on that later on - I have ordered some of that diesel purge but will probably wait until I've looked at the head now before using it.

As always much appreciate the responses and ideas - any thoughts on any of the above welcome. 

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #92 on: September 06, 2020, 08:37:00 PM »
For vac to drop to 0 even when VNT operating I would say that is a cause rather than a symptom,I would suspect the tandem pump is failing.

Unfortunately on that particular engine (BRT) the heads have been known to crack.


I would suspect the galaxy box is different as itís connected to the 1.9, the 2.0 even if casing etc is same I would imagine ratioís are different.

Did you look in to the shim on the end of shaft?

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #93 on: September 07, 2020, 06:12:57 AM »
For vac to drop to 0 even when VNT operating I would say that is a cause rather than a symptom,I would suspect the tandem pump is failing.

Unfortunately on that particular engine (BRT) the heads have been known to crack.


I would suspect the galaxy box is different as itís connected to the 1.9, the 2.0 even if casing etc is same I would imagine ratioís are different.

Did you look in to the shim on the end of shaft?

I contacted darkside who you linked to and they said it sounded like syncro, it wasn't expensive though so maybe worth a go anyway?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #94 on: September 07, 2020, 08:27:19 AM »
I think I would try the shim and an oil change first before whipping box out.

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #95 on: September 08, 2020, 09:09:20 PM »
I had a job cancelled today so had some more time to play around.  Yes unfortunately the gearboxes do have different codes, the Galaxy is FUX and the Sharan is JPN, externally they look identical and the driveshafts are definitely the same but haven't found any technical specs yet.

Gearbox - have reset the linkages following the procedure and also changed the oil, don't frown at me for this but having changed it in the galaxy about 4 years ago (supposedly lifetime stuff) and it being special order and about £70 for the correct stuff I really didn't want to order new oil just to test so yes I did go there and drained the Galaxy oil, ran it through a superfine paint filter twice and put it in the Sharan  :-[  The results are promising - its not super slick changes but seems to have improved it, will need to do some more miles to make a firm judgement.  I also tried to gently tease the cap off the end of the box to check for end float, it wasn't going to come off without damaging it so have just ordered the shim kit which should be here for the weekend, hopefully that might improve it further and justify replacing the oil with new.

I have also ordered a rebuild kit for the tandem pump but while the battery tray was out it would have been rude not to have also borrowed the Galaxy one, as far as I can tell there is just the one variant?  Anyway the sad news is it had no effect on the hunting but will rebuild the other one at leisure and swap it back.

So I think I have run out of things to try and the next step must be to remove the head and see what joys that reveals




Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #96 on: September 08, 2020, 11:27:50 PM »
Itís a very odd fault thatís for sure I canít think what else could be causing it except for the ECU map??  Seem to remember reading that the BRT also suffers with injector issues so might be worth inspecting/testing them while head is off

Tandem pumps are either LUK or Bosch both interchangeable if I recall bit both do exact same job.

Fingers crossed the shim kit will resolve the gearbox issue,and like you I would have done the same with the gear oil for testing purposes. Whatís so special about the oil that it cost £70 and had to be ordered in? I thought they just used standard  synthetic gl4



Offline SirDavidAlhambra

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #97 on: September 10, 2020, 07:47:53 AM »
U guys r amazing how u tenaciously work through complex mystery problems like this one. Iím racking my brains to think of what else it could be but Iím feeling out of my depth now. I really hope this lovely car gets back in the road without kangarooing soon
I drive a Seat Alhambra 1.9Tdi which has 115bhp and an automatic gearbox.

I am happy to help you with all your questions. I am not a qualified mechanic but seem to be better at fixing my car than even the most experienced garages.

I have lots of friends here and very much enjoy talking with you all.

Always remember, a motor car is a serious tool and should be treated with respect. Put your safety first, always.

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #98 on: September 11, 2020, 09:25:11 PM »
Cheers guys, well the good news is the gear changes are a whole load better since changing the oil and resetting the lingages, its still a little notchy but I'm hoping the shim may help with that.

As for the hunting well that's still there and the coolant is still pressuring up so taking the head off is priority and maybe the answer to its problems will be revealed.  Is there any kind of VW technical reference like for the Ford I had TIS for things like torque settings/sequences etc and general reference. 

I'm preparing myself for it needing a new head and if that's the case would prefer to get one prebuilt with new camshaft/valves ground in etc that I can just bolt on - purely for time reasons - does anyone have any recommendations for suppliers?

Offline barlidge

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Re: Sharan 140 SE Hunting on Acceleration + other issues
« Reply #99 on: September 13, 2020, 09:51:02 PM »
Bit of an update - prior to beginning dismantling I took a couple of information gathering steps, first I borrowed a mates diesel compression tester, all four cylinders measured around 400psi each with very little difference between them which at least gives me a certain degree of confidence in the bottom end.  Secondly I looked at the torsion value in measuring blocks 4 which showed -5.4 on idle which seems to me a bit far out.

As of this evening the turbo and inlet are all back off and I've got as far as the timing belt which on checking prior to removal I believe is one tooth out (cam end), unfortunately my timing tool that I had for the AUY Galaxy doesn't seem to be compatible with the BRT Sharan variant so a new one is on order but on visual checking doesn't look right.  I have attached pics which show the cam locking pin engaged but to me the crank is 2 teeth advanced from where I believe it needs to be which would equate to 1 tooth on the cam.  There are 22 teeth on the crank and 44 on the cam, 360 degrees divided by 44 gives 8.18 degrees  per tooth which coupled with a couple of degrees adjustment on the cam sprocket would suggest that correlates with the VCDS reading  of -5.4 retarded cam timing.

I'm hopeful this maybe the cause of the hunting but still very much of a mind that there are two individual issues and that there is still a problem with the head that is causing the coolant to pressure up, after the pics I did remove the water pump and confirmed the impeller had not become detached so i think the head still has to come off.

Things are not helped by someone previously breaking the receptacle for the crank locking device  >:(

The above is just my theory and as alway welcome any thoughts.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 09:52:55 PM by barlidge »

 

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