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Author Topic: TDI Head gasket replacement questuions  (Read 1311 times)

Offline christiant

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  • Thanked: 3
  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 TDI 115 Zetec
  • Region: Non UK
TDI Head gasket replacement questuions
« on: August 16, 2018, 11:36:17 AM »
So Ive decided to bite the bullet and replace the gasket. A few questions on the job
1. Head gasket selection in regards to thickness. How to determine the thickness needed? I am aware as on other DI engines the piston protrusion needs to be measured. Can I find out what thickness the old gasket was?
2. Head bolts. I read head bolts are recommended off a 150hp. Can anyone confirm correct part number?
3. Can the head be removed as one unit without messing with injectors and camshaft etc?
4. If the head needs a skim do the valves and injectors need to come off?
Thanks in advance

Offline johnnyroper

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 tdi 115 ghia
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  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: TDI Head gasket replacement questuions
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2018, 05:18:20 PM »
1, there are holes stamped in gasket by cylinder 4 on a tab that sticks out.

2,yes fit 150 ones not sure on P/N though.

3, been a while but I seem to remember just need to take injector rockers off cam can stay in.

4, if it needs a skim injectors will need to come out,cam off but valves can be left.

Offline christiant

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  • Posts: 96
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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 TDI 115 Zetec
  • Region: Non UK
Re: TDI Head gasket replacement questuions
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2018, 01:32:02 PM »
Another question, would a head off a 130 HP ASZ fit it? Found one at a good price which has the valves reseated and skimmed.

Offline johnnyroper

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  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: TDI Head gasket replacement questuions
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2018, 03:02:44 PM »
Yes it would if I remeber correctly only difference between 1.9pd heads is the injectors. 100-115 same but 130-150 are different.

Offline christiant

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 TDI 115 Zetec
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Re: TDI Head gasket replacement questuions
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2018, 10:46:58 AM »
So more questions on the head and gasket
Basically from what I read so far, the PD is very sensitive to head skimming. The replacement head I am looking at buying is exactly the same, however it has been skimmed and the valves reseated. The reason I am looking to replace mine is the dreaded injector bore issue, and also the head I am looking at has been pressure tested.

I will try to find out how much the new head has been skimmed, but I read about issues that could arise from this eg. valve protrusion, piston protrusion etc. Could this be safely compensated by fitting the thickest gasket and what are the tolerances? Another thing I am considering is using my old head, but that eliminates the chance for skimming it and pressure testing it as I don't want to mess with the injectors because of the dodgy bores.

Last but not least, I looked at the tab on my old gasket which is supposed to have the wholes stamped for the thickness and has none?! Would this mean it is the thinnest type?

Offline johnnyroper

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  • Spec: 02 tdi 115 ghia
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Re: TDI Head gasket replacement questuions
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2018, 11:03:58 AM »
The heads can be skimmed although VAG donít recommend it, but look at it this way VAG sell reconditioned heads so thy must have been re surfaced.

As for the gasket if no holes then it is thinnest one so I would fit a 1 hole gasket to account for the skimmed head.

I know what you mean about the injector bores opposite side to clamp takes a battering and if you took your injectors out you could well end up needing a replacement head anyway.

My advice is go for the skimmed one and fit 1 hole gasket.

Offline christiant

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 TDI 115 Zetec
  • Region: Non UK
Re: TDI Head gasket replacement questuions
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2018, 10:08:40 PM »
I decided to measure piston protrusion and will update the results. I will do a little write up with part numbers and pics of the process, because it may be useful for someone as these seem to be common. I personally am going to go with reusing the old bolts for rockers and camshaft bearing caps even though they are stretch type bolts I have successfully reused them before.

038 103 383 C- Head bolts 150HP ARL engine code x10
038 103 385 A- injector bolts x4
1 417 010 997- Bosch injector seals sets x4

Head gasket selection
Gasket thicknesses
Piston protrusion 0.91 - 1.00 mm    1 hole-1.45mm
Piston protrusion 1.01 - 1.10 mm    2 hole-1.53mm
Piston protrusion 1.11 - 1.20 mm    3 hole-1.61mm
In some catalogues the head gasket thickness varies slightly
Ford part numbers are
1431663 - 1 hole=  VAG pn 038103383BL
1431667 - 2 holes=VAG pn 038103383BM
1431669 - 3 holes=VAG pn 038103383BN

Offline christiant

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
  • Spec: 02 TDI 115 Zetec
  • Region: Non UK
Re: TDI Head gasket replacement questuions
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2018, 08:32:50 PM »
I ran into some issues again. I measured piston protrusion using a dial gauge and...
1-cyl- 0.85mm
2-cyl 1.1mm
3-cyl 0.85mm
4-cyl 0.0mm

Piston 4 doesnt even rise above the deck... Bent rod? The other thing is... I didn't see any sings of failure in the gasket at all....

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: TDI Head gasket replacement questuions
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2018, 10:25:30 PM »
I wouldnít worry about that itís just machining tolerances,you will never get all exactly the same. The protrusion measurement/gasket thickness is taken from the highest reading.

So on the head or face of the block there is no witness marking between cylinder and water jacket even if just faint track mark?

Offline christiant

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
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Re: TDI Head gasket replacement questuions
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2018, 02:22:57 AM »
I couldn't see any marks either on head face or block and I am a bit worried about the 1.1 mm difference because it is quite a bit. What I did see is piston on cyl 1 was a bit shiny and I suspect coolant was making its way in there. I hope the block is fine and I will go ahead and put it back together with new head.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: TDI Head gasket replacement questuions
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2018, 05:44:00 PM »
I personally would worry about that difference if it was me 0.16mm ainít a lot,thatís why they have different gasket thickness to account for slight variations. The gasket specified for 1.1mm protrusion will be fine.

Sounds like no1 was offending cylinder then,sure it will be fine with replacement head if it wasnít a straight gasket fail the head will most likely be the culprit anyway.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: TDI Head gasket replacement questuions
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2018, 06:38:32 PM »
Excuse my shocking maths 0.25 between 1/3 and 2. Not 0.16

I see what you mean 1.1 difference from no4, have you access to any manuals on engine as that could well be within tolerance anyway?

Offline christiant

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
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Re: TDI Head gasket replacement questuions
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2018, 09:02:53 PM »
I cleaned well from all the carbon and measured again
1st 0.85mm
2nd 0.95
3rd 0.85
4th 0.05
Still a lot. As you suggested I went one size up for the gasket. I used the 2 hole type. The head is back on now. I cleaned the threads well and put 150bhp bolts as suggested. I oiled the bolts very slightly. However one of them wasnt even touching the head the first stage when torquing.. It is around the 4th cylinder. Will put it all back together and fingers crossed should be fine, but definitely something not a 100% right...Checked the deck face twice and seems perfectly flat. I suspect it overheated at some point but the gauge never went up much. It is my fault because I kept driving it while not sorting out the problem and there probably was an air pocket in the system.

Offline johnnyroper

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  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: TDI Head gasket replacement questuions
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2018, 11:46:13 PM »
Sounds like the bolt hole had some fluid in it still if bolt didnít nip down on 1st stage of torque up? Did you give them a good clean out and make sure they were free of any oil/coolant? Also how much oil did you apply as bolts usually come pre oiled?

Offline christiant

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2
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Re: TDI Head gasket replacement questuions
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2018, 05:25:31 PM »
I blew in each hole with compressed air, also screwed an old bolt in each hole as well. It was strange... Maybe a bit of cloth went in there when I was cleaning. I applied a very small amount of oil on the bolts, I usually oil a sponge and just turn the bolts around a bit in it. It said in their instruction to oil them. I used a Victor Reinz kit. When the bolt was funny, because it was the first stage I turned it back and forth with the specified torque, then it seemed fine, but a bit worrying. I will probably manage to put it all back together soon and will fire it up and see what happens.

 

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