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Author Topic: The big work happens  (Read 13674 times)

Offline egg

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The big work happens
« on: August 02, 2016, 07:07:30 PM »
Hi there again.

Started stripping down to do a head gasket change.  n00b

Already have a stripped hex head bolt on the crankshaft pulley. Will i reverse drill it out or what? when i removed the other 3 the crank rotated a bit. I'm gonna tray and get a vice grip on it again, but due to the access its difficult. Any tips would be good, as its completely rounded. >:(



Plus what type of tensioner is this?



There's a bit of oil in the area, only place i think its coming from is the Camshaft End Seal. Would this be a correct assumption?


Cheers
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 07:08:56 PM by egg »
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2016, 07:15:50 PM »
I had the same problem I beat a 12 point half inch drive socket over it can't remember if 11 or 12mm will check when home as bolt still in it.

That looks like manual tensioner to me.

Oil leak wise either cam seal or rocker cover gasket as it seems to be coming down,once sprocket and rear cover is off you will see better.
You should get replacements in kit anyway but you will need a puller to remove camshaft hub. Or you can put a bolt and large washer in and support the hub them beat bolt with hammer. Cam needs to be out the bolt needs to be long enough so cam gets driven out but does not fly out and hit the floor.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2016, 07:23:03 PM »
My mistake I actually think it is hydraulic (automatic) tensioner as it has an extra bit where peg type tool fits that mine does not.

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2016, 07:29:13 PM »
That's why im asking. It looks similar, but having never seen either it's a guessing game.
I had a good check of the rocker cover seal when i tightened up the head bolts. There didn't seem to be a leak, so i never ordered the rocker cover seal in the head set. If it is the case it is the cam seal, is the method you mentioned doable?  :-\
Im sausage fingered and club footed, usually when i hammer stuff it kills it :P

THis looks similar

And is the more expensive hydraulic type..
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 07:37:49 PM by egg »
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2016, 07:45:53 PM »
Yes that's the one you have mine is mechanical and it is different to that.

It worked for me as I am right I didn't want to buy a puller so put in longer bolt with big washer,supported on 2 blocks of wood on top of axle stands so cam sat higher than floor. Couple of direct hits to bolt head soon had hub off. Just remember if you have can out you need new cap and rocker bolts also. Also don't forget a slight smear of silicone under the 2 end caps prior to putting back on.

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2016, 08:17:25 PM »
Thanks for all the speedy help [GJ]

As regards the cam seals, i'm sure it will be  a lot more obvious when im looking at it as how to remove the hub. By removing the cam shaft though, is there anything else ill need to replace?
Theres a video on youtube, where he uses the puller tool:
https://youtu.be/V3XNNGpdu7w
Is this a good reference?

I'm at a loss at how to replace the hydraulic tensioner. If somebody has the haynes manual, could they please tell me whether the process is in there before i fork out 20.

« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 08:20:17 PM by egg »
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2016, 08:46:49 PM »
Sorry video would not play.

Does this help with the timing tensioner?

http://uk-mkivs.net/topic/11309-changing-the-timing-belt-on-a-pd-diesel-engine/

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2016, 09:06:43 PM »
Just out walking the dog, I'll have a good read up when I get back. The video shows a camshaft replacement and uses the pulling tool. Would it be dumb just to replace the belt on its own? It's 200 vs 30 lol.
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2016, 09:36:02 PM »
False economy only ever change as a complete kit,the new belt being tensioner will put extra stress on the bearings in water pump,tensioner and rollers.

It was a 12mm socket I used for crank bolt.

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2016, 09:56:06 PM »
Yeah i was joking, the kit is 200 though ouch :o

Cheers again.

Its just getting dark now so it will be tomorrow again before i crack on.

i'll have to give the 12mm socket a go first then its off with the belt, then off with the drive shaft and then the turbo and gonna degunk the inlet too and the egr (may as well).

I'm sure ill be here again soon with an update and probably more questions :P

I'm reading the tensioner installation guide you gave me. What is the T10008 locking tool?
Is it the pronged silver plate tool to the right?


And it take it slides in here:
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2016, 10:00:54 PM »
Yes I think it is the plate with prongs on as I didn't need for mine.

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2016, 10:20:12 PM »
Sound job. Just read about 5 times and still not sinking in ::) Gonna call it a day and start a fresh tomorrow. :)
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline suffolkadam

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2016, 11:01:31 PM »
hi guys , just read your post and thought this might help. I've scanned in the entire chapter from the Haynes manual for you. anything else just ask. I have had to post in two hits due to the restrictions on the size of post

Offline suffolkadam

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2016, 11:04:11 PM »
And here is part 2..just print them out turn round the right way.

Offline johnnyroper

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Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2016, 10:45:32 AM »
hi guys , just read your post and thought this might help. I've scanned in the entire chapter from the Haynes manual for you. anything else just ask. I have had to post in two hits due to the restrictions on the size of post

Sound job. [THANKS] Was thinking of buying the manual if it is relevant, and seems that it is. Ill print off the pages you gave me, should help alot. Getting worried about stripping the head if needed. What you think. Should i bring to specialist repair and get skimmed and tested etc? I'm starting to think it will be 100 euro well spent.
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline egg

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As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2016, 11:07:07 AM »
Personally I would see if there are any obvious marks on head/block face first,if there is a clear fault I probably wouldn't bother myself but if there was nothing concrete I would get it checked out.

Having it checked does mean total strip down so factor in cost of injector seals and all stretch bolts aswell as head check cost.

I used a straight edge on mine as there was a clear indication of gas blow across.

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2016, 12:23:20 PM »
I was thinking more for the seal replacement in the method that you described by removing the crankshaft. I would need to replace bolts anyways. Do i need to remove injectors to remove the crankshaft, if so they all need new seals and special tools to carry it out, plus time and experience. When i get the head off, i will look for exactly what you described, and if it is the same, then i will be following your procedure, and replacing the cam shaft seal myself (hopefully if i can).
After all i'm a complete novice, and i am doing this job by diagrams and advice given here, plus videos off of YouTube. If anything is wrong i'm not sure i'll have the experience to see it, and i am literally spending next weeks food budget to but parts :D
Great advice by the way, and i am really grateful.
Again, hope i'm not asking blatantly obvious questions..
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2016, 12:41:18 PM »
I assume it's the camshaft you're talking about removing, not the crankshaft? The injectors do not require removing in order to remove the camshaft, though the rockers that operate the injectors will need removing as they in turn are operated by the camshaft.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2016, 12:55:07 PM »
Yep camshaft lol. Jees, doesn't look good getting that mixed up.
Just looking at the haynes manual. Seems you can drill some self tap screws into the housing and remove it this way.

Not too sure if the camshaft is in place still or not, or how to get the sprocket off, plus will this effect timing etc.
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2016, 01:12:18 PM »
The camshaft is still installed in that picture, if you don't need or want to remove the camshaft from the cylinder head then as you say a couple of self tapping screws through the old seal is a good way to get it out without damaging anything else so you can replace it.

To access the seal, the camshaft hub (which the toothed sprocket sits on top of) needs to be removed,  which is what Johnnyroper was describing removing in this post. The hub should be keyed into the camshaft so there's no worries about messing up any timing settings there, and the toothed sprocket just sits over the hub on elongated bolt holes, I'm not sure if it is possible to refit the sprocket incorrectly relative to the hub so you may need to be a little careful there but it's possible it'll only go back on in one orientation.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2016, 01:16:49 PM »
The sprocket can be refitted back on hub incorrectly so locking peg holes do not line up,paint mark sprocket and hub prior to removal so you can put them back the same. Also worth paint marking the 13mm head bolt positions so you are same position as now when putting belt back on.

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2016, 03:41:12 PM »
Thanks gents. That has cleared the confusion up. Might purchase a Haynes as well. Already have 30 odd pages printed out  :P
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline suffolkadam

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2016, 09:38:27 AM »
hi egg, if you need any more pages scanned then ask its not a problem. I've been out on call this week so doing all sorts of wierd hours.
looks like your getting way involved now. if she ain't been over heating then more than likely the head will be fine but then on the the other side of the coin you don't want to put it all back and have probs. might have to bite the bullet and get it checked. I've got the same prob as you but i never had any oil what so ever around the timing belt when i did it .my engine is really clean so that's why I've tried to do everything i can before ripping off the head cos i always find that on engines that have done over the 150,000 you start getting bolts rounding and finding bits you didn't want to find etc, my last attempt was using "STEEL SEAL" its been in the car now for a week and I've done 160 miles across last weekend and it seems to have worked, obviously early days but i never pressurised and never lost any water. i will post findings later after its been in there a month or so.     

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2016, 10:53:07 AM »
hi egg, if you need any more pages scanned then ask its not a problem. I've been out on call this week so doing all sorts of wierd hours.
looks like your getting way involved now. if she ain't been over heating then more than likely the head will be fine but then on the the other side of the coin you don't want to put it all back and have probs. might have to bite the bullet and get it checked. I've got the same prob as you but i never had any oil what so ever around the timing belt when i did it .my engine is really clean so that's why I've tried to do everything i can before ripping off the head cos i always find that on engines that have done over the 150,000 you start getting bolts rounding and finding bits you didn't want to find etc, my last attempt was using "STEEL SEAL" its been in the car now for a week and I've done 160 miles across last weekend and it seems to have worked, obviously early days but i never pressurised and never lost any water. i will post findings later after its been in there a month or so.   

Thats very kind, and i really appreciate it. Most people who i talk to say that taking the head off is a last resort as the engines never run right after. I mean apart from the coolant pressurizing and some oil leaks the car is running fine. If there is even a hint of any other damage to the head or blowing elsewhere, i will be taking the head in to get reconditioned, i mean i'm spending all my cash and i don't want to put it back again with same/more problems as you say. Plus it will be an extra euro100 which is not much more in terms of what im spending, and for that the peace of mind will be great.

Incidentally, i bought the car to go visit my family in Aylsham. Its 12 mile north of Norwich which you probably know. Doesn't look likely now  :( unless everything just falls into place.
Bloody gale force winds here at the minute, so things already are against me :P

Fingers crossed.. legs arms eyes everything crossed...
 [THANKS]
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2016, 11:48:25 AM »
Well just to put your mind at rest after mine was stripped down and left for a month before being put back together it ran fine once the synchro angle was set up. So don't believe what you are being told about it not running right after.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2016, 12:14:21 PM »
As above, such un-quantifiable statements like 'it'll never be right again' are cobblers really, if it's not right then there's a reason for it, and in the case of taking the head off of one of these motors that could be due to non-replacement of bolts that should have been replaced, failure to correctly replace injector seals if the injectors have been taken out of the head, failure to align the injectors correctly when refitting etc etc, or even the fault not being correctly diagnosed in the first place. So yes if the job has been done on the cheap or incorrectly it may not solve the problem, but there's no reason for it to never run right again if the job is done right.

As a side note, Johnnyroper- what's the synchro angle you're referring to? The injector torsion values or the physical alignment of the injectors within the cylinder head?
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2016, 12:19:44 PM »
Well just to put your mind at rest after mine was stripped down and left for a month before being put back together it ran fine once the synchro angle was set up. So don't believe what you are being told about it not running right after.

I see. I mean the lads i have spoke too didn't mention adjusting the syncro angle using vcds, I may ask them, if there are any other negative comments, and guage their reaction.
 8-)
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2016, 12:32:02 PM »
If you get the cam sprocket in about the same position as now you won't be far off.
If it's out you will notice car is a bit under powered low down and when cold takes a bit more cranking and starts with a cloud of diesel smoke. Once it has been fine tuned all should be ok.

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2016, 05:58:54 PM »
Just starting on the driveshaft now and wondering do i take the whole aluminium cast cage or not? 



The ones in yellow or red?

Cheers.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 06:03:50 PM by egg »
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2016, 06:16:26 PM »
Yep, if you're wanting to improve access to the underside of the turbo etc just remove the complete driveshaft- including the aluminium cage- from the gearbox.
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2016, 06:20:09 PM »
many thanks... ;)
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2016, 07:24:03 PM »
This isn't going swimmingly to say the least. No matter how hard i try i cant get to the two upper bolts with any combination of spanners/sockets. Am i missing something, or will i need to disassemble the shaft bit by bit?


As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2016, 07:32:56 PM »
Not done it myself but I think you split the shaft at the spline before taking rest off?
Have you looked at the OSF driveshaft guide in ref library?

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2016, 03:21:56 PM »
I just ended up splitting in 2 to take off. Nearly lost my thumb a couple of times in the process :P
Just taking the turbo off now, well looking for a guide again. Do i need to take the egr off to take the turbo off? I cant see the oil feed pipe from below or above, and dont want to break it.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 03:25:19 PM by egg »
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2016, 03:34:17 PM »
It will be easier to take egr off as that gives better access to the exhaust manifold nuts on that side.
The oil feed runs off turbo along back of head if memory serves correctly it has a steel P clip on to exhaust manifold stud gearbox end,it then runs along top of bell housing/engine join and down to filter housing. Possibly got a couple more clips along the way? Should be visible from down below.


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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2016, 03:47:16 PM »
Im starting to see now about limited access. Time consuming and fiddly don't even start to describe it. Just tackling the egr now then.  >:(
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  • First Name: martyn
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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2016, 04:33:50 PM »
Back again.

Any tips how to get this bolt out? Ive been over an hour now and cant even get a turn on it.



Starting to get frustrated.
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2016, 04:57:30 PM »
If using standard Allen key insert so long part is in it then use a combination spanner on the short end for leverage.

Or 5mm Allen key on a socket with extension bar to just clear inlet of valve.

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2016, 06:50:04 PM »


Just 2 bolts left on the bugger :D Jees tricky means tricky. I adopted a similar method that you said johnny. When it finally came out, it was ringed a bit, hence the struggle. Ah well just turbo to go now :)

Im happy today anyway.. Passed my truck test earlier!  [WAVE]
« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 07:01:45 PM by egg »
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2016, 07:04:24 PM »
More funny nuts...

Lets get cracking. Excuse the pun.
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2016, 08:32:43 PM »
Them egr nuts should come off piece of cake I reckon got good access to them.

Congratulations on the truck test.

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2016, 09:00:37 PM »
Thanks a million.

Couldn't get em off so i'm soaking them along with the exhaust manifold nuts and gonna take the turbo and manifold off first thing. That egr was a living nightmare, but not too badly caked up. It looks new, and so does the turbo :P thought the guide must have been exaggerated by saying 8 hours... took me 5 just to get it all off lol.

I bought a haynes today :p. Little treat to celebrate  balloons

Should be nearly half way tomorrow.
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2016, 12:32:24 AM »
Fingers crossed they all come out ok tomorrow and you can then extract the head and finally see inside.

Those egr pipe bolts can be a bit fiddly to get on to can't they? I dealt with mine once and for all by getting rid of the whole lot..... EGR,pipe work and the cooler. Fitted egr delete,blanked outlet on manifold,done away with all the excess vac hoses and re-routed coolant pipe from aux water pump to housing on head.

Offline insanitybeard

  • Greetings from Mr Chick!
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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2016, 10:10:03 AM »
Keep the pictures coming! It's all good info which will be sure to help others in a similar predicament!
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline egg

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2016, 01:44:49 PM »
Fingers crossed they all come out ok tomorrow and you can then extract the head and finally see inside.

Those egr pipe bolts can be a bit fiddly to get on to can't they? I dealt with mine once and for all by getting rid of the whole lot..... EGR,pipe work and the cooler. Fitted egr delete,blanked outlet on manifold,done away with all the excess vac hoses and re-routed coolant pipe from aux water pump to housing on head.

Fiddley... The cramps i had in my calfs last night due to being on my toes reaching between pipes, jees! I took the rocker cover off just to get at it in the end. Had a search on the egr delete, not much info here. Where can i get the kit? Sounds good.

Had a busy morning , so im just heading out to do a bit. I'll report back later with my findings unless im looking for help with dismantling again :P
As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never face the wrong way.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2016, 04:00:41 PM »
This is the kit I have but got it off eBay so was cheaper,you can get other makes but be sure you get the one for 130 and 150bhp engines as the smaller one does not fit Galaxy manifold.

http://www.allardaluminiumproducts.co.uk/air-systems/egr-delete-kits/egr-delete-56.html

You will also need a 90 degree silicone hose that is 57mm one end dropping to 50mm other end,again eBay job.

I also did this vac pipe work.

http://uk-mkivs.net/topic/50427-pd-vac-line-simplification-n18-n239-valve-delete/

The cooler hoses I was able to route one of them to link in to head,but you can just get some 22mm copper tube and join the existing ones together.


Offline alial

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2016, 12:07:44 AM »
hi m8.. you can delete egr without using any kit...there are 3 option...
1-disconnect the wee plastic pipe going in to the egr and use screw to secure it, secure the egr  part as well.. the valve inside the egr wont move again and will be in closed position.
2- metal pipe connect turbo to egr .. use metal shaped the same as the ends to prevent any gas going to egr from the turbo..
3-vag to minimize the percentage of egr work.

hope this will help.thnx   

Offline Hej-Hej

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Re: The big work happens
« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2016, 10:31:05 AM »
hi m8.. you can delete egr without using any kit...there are 3 option...
1-disconnect the wee plastic pipe going in to the egr and use screw to secure it, secure the egr  part as well.. the valve inside the egr wont move again and will be in closed position.
2- metal pipe connect turbo to egr .. use metal shaped the same as the ends to prevent any gas going to egr from the turbo..
3-vag to minimize the percentage of egr work.

hope this will help.thnx

I've done the first option mentioned on my 115hp; just discnnect vac pipe from EGR and put a bolt in the pipe, if the EGR are in working condition this will do the job and takes no time to do!

If the EGR is faulty and wont fully close or you just want to be completely sure its all closed, then the blocking plate is what you want

Not sure if its possible to do the EGR tweak using VCDS on the PD engines used in the Galaxy, but please correct me if im wrong :)

 

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