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Author Topic: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment  (Read 13797 times)

Offline martinrichard

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Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« on: December 24, 2016, 03:02:49 PM »
Hi All,
I have a water leak in in my 2003 Sharan 1.9 TDI as evidenced by occasional rapid emptying of coolant expansion tank.
At the same time the heater system malfunctioned.(ie no heat)

Initial inspection showed no obvious sites of loss.
With bonnet open the rad appeared faultless and dry
There was no wetness near the water pump.
Visible pipes were dry.
The only slight wetness was around the rim in the expansion tank.

On removing the engine tray, the lagging was drenched on the near/passengers side. Not on the drivers.
This was definitely coolant.(checked by taste! yuk)

So...Plan 1)
 check expansion tank and pipes.
ET removed attached to air compressor, no leaks.
The cap released air at highish pressure.

Then I checked the run-on pump.
This was not working.
Now... the auxillary heater hasn't worked for ages but nonetheless, I removed the run-on pump and, thanks to this forum, replaced the bushes and have got it working.
(This seems to have helped the heating problem - but not affected the non-functional aux heater)
Inspection around the run-on pump showed no leaks.
then...
Inspection around the aux heater and esp the pair of metal pipes leading to it - no leaks.

However....and heres the next challenge I face, I think there is a hint that there is a leak at the front end of one of these pipes. (there was excess water - on one of the brackets that holds them in place at the front on the underside of the car) This could be a leak in the pipes, or something from above them, ie the filler cap malfunctioning
(however, I doubt the filler cap's the problem because the expansion tank sometimes empties completely---?)

The top end of these pipes seem difficult to get to from top or bottom but I want to check them.
I wonder if there is a leak just before the front heater matrix.

It seems a palaver to take all the dash etc off and I'm not good at handling the trim and stuff (something always breaks) but I would do it if I knew that the leak was there

So, I don't know what to do next.
Should I buy a new filler cap (seems u likely to be the problem doesnt it?

Does anyone have experience of a leak in this rear nearside engine compartment area?
Any thoughts or obvious solutions anyone?



 


Online Chrispb

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2016, 03:16:17 PM »
Hello and  welcome5

Have a read of the link below but loads of pressure in the system is usually head gasket failure

https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/heater-blowing-cold-air-and-engine-overheating-underload-(all-models)/#sthash.juV4Hh8v.dpbs
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
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Offline bonkers

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2016, 03:50:31 PM »
I had a similar leak, real sod to find. It turned out to be from these pipes


However I didn't lose as much water as your describing

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2016, 08:04:55 PM »
Having purchased a 1.9tdi galaxy exhibiting symptoms like you have I would suggest checking the cooling system for excessive pressure. After a run carefully squeeze rad pipes to see if they are firm and also after being left overnight release the cap and see if any pressure has remained in system.

Mine was the head gasket pressurising the cooling system and forcing coolant out of the expansion bottle,there was evidence of coolant all around the nearside and underneath where it puked it out and travelled back.

Offline jaredgrice1

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2016, 07:45:09 PM »
The two pipes Bonkers suggested is a very likely problem as the protective sheath hides the leak. The water squirts either towards the front of the engine compartment or the nearside rear bulkhead where your's is wet. But there's also an in line valve in one of the pipes behind the expansion tank. When it's open it can leak & also when it's closed it can leak but won't on the alternative. So very intermittent leak. The valve operates by vacuum pressure.

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Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2016, 08:49:24 PM »
What is this vacuum valve for as mine does not have it fitted?

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2016, 09:26:49 PM »
Thank you!
Chrispb, the water does return to the Expansion tank.
I will bear in mind the cylinder head and do the checks that johnnyroper suggests. There is no change in engine performance despite 1 litre plus losses, so I don't think its going into a cylinder. Could this much water blow out through the filler cap?

Hi Bonkers, are these pipes behind the engine on the near-side? Could you advise how could I locate them?
How on earth do you get to those pipes, indeed how even to look for leaks in them without removing the engine?

Because the faults intermittent I'm interested in the valve that you mention, jaredgrice1.
Which pipe is this? (a different set to the ones Bonkers posted?)

Thanks!


Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2016, 09:28:49 PM »
I had a similar leak, real sod to find. It turned out to be from these pipes


However I didn't lose as much water as your describing

Hi Bonkers, where are these pipes, can you help me locate them?
Thanks

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2016, 09:31:19 PM »
The two pipes Bonkers suggested is a very likely problem as the protective sheath hides the leak. The water squirts either towards the front of the engine compartment or the nearside rear bulkhead where your's is wet. But there's also an in line valve in one of the pipes behind the expansion tank. When it's open it can leak & also when it's closed it can leak but won't on the alternative. So very intermittent leak. The valve operates by vacuum pressure.

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Hi jaredgrice1, the valve could be a clue to my intermittent loss; can you advise which pipe it is and how to locate it?
Thank you!

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2016, 09:51:34 PM »
The water does not go in to a cylinder as compression is higher than water pressure,some of the cylinder compression leaks in to cooling jacket and pushes coolant out of cap. Mine could empty it in no time at all.

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2016, 10:19:53 PM »
The water does not go in to a cylinder as compression is higher than water pressure,some of the cylinder compression leaks in to cooling jacket and pushes coolant out of cap. Mine could empty it in no time at all.
Ah!
That's interesting and makes sense of course.
Worrying too.

Before I start thinking "head gaskets", I wonder why some journeys it doesn't happen?
Does that make any sense if its an HG?


Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2016, 10:25:06 PM »
Characteristic of the pd engine that's why they don't show up with block testing. They need to be run for a while and usually when pushed a bit,I would hazard a guess that it will probably dump its water after prolonged high speed driving and possibly even overheat.

Give it a good motorway blast then check the pressure in system I expect it will be high.

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2016, 10:41:37 PM »
Characteristic of the pd engine that's why they don't show up with block testing. They need to be run for a while and usually when pushed a bit,I would hazard a guess that it will probably dump its water after prolonged high speed driving and possibly even overheat.

Give it a good motorway blast then check the pressure in system I expect it will be high.
I do hope not, but that may well be the case.
(I did do a 40 mile journey at a decent pace with no loss at all, so thought it couldn't be the HG)
I'll give it a motorway blast tomorrow.

When it blows out of the cap, is there a typical pattern of wetness?
I see no signs of loss in the engine compartment when looking from above,
but loads of water in the tray beneath.

Online Chrispb

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2016, 12:30:16 AM »
Thank you!
Chrispb, the water does return to the Expansion tank.
I will bear in mind the cylinder head and do the checks that johnnyroper suggests. There is no change in engine performance despite 1 litre plus losses, so I don't think its going into a cylinder. Could this much water blow out through the filler cap?

Thanks!
The clue here is the amount air present in your system when removing the cap,
If you have a split hose or a leaky radiator you will lose any pressure built up at these points as johnnyroper pointed out the excess pressure is blown from the combustion chamber across the gasket into the water jacket.
On these engines they do not normally show any external leaks or water/coolant in with the oil.
But staining and wetness around and under the battery area will most certainly be from the filler/pressure cap.

I'm not saying don't check the obvious first but going by what you have said it's not a simple fix.
There is a tremendous amount of posts on here about overheating and coolant loss some are caused by a failed water pump that's gone unchecked for some time see my video below.
 


Other causes could be incorrect procedures followed following past repairs/issues with overheating/coolant loss, do you know the history of the vehicle? has it had problems with this before.

The electric pump that you have already dealt with provides extra circulation with the coolant and is essential for the correct operation of the booster heater there is also a run on facility with the 115 AUY engine to circulate the coolant for three minutes after the engine is shut off to avoid hot spots.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
2003 MK2 Galaxy Ghia In Solid Black 1.9 TDI 115PS. 5 Speed Automatic.

Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

With VCDS lite (full version) need a code clearing or want to scan for faults in the north kent area, PM me.
All for a pint of Strongbow.

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Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2016, 07:49:39 AM »
I do hope not, but that may well be the case.
(I did do a 40 mile journey at a decent pace with no loss at all, so thought it couldn't be the HG)
I'll give it a motorway blast tomorrow.

When it blows out of the cap, is there a typical pattern of wetness?
I see no signs of loss in the engine compartment when looking from above,
but loads of water in the tray beneath.

With mine you couldn't really see anything up top until battery was out,the staining was evident under the bottle and around top of gearbox and chassiss leg,there was also a pool on the under tray. Testing for excessive pressure after a run will be the key to head gasket diagnosis.
As Chris says above it could be faulty water pump that has caused it or simply the TTY bolts on head have give a bit with heating/cooling cycles reducing head to block clamping force. If it is gasket then as part of repair the pump and belt kit should be replaced,I would also advise the 150pd head bolts are us d rather than the 115 ones as they can take more stress.

If you end up doing the head post up on here as plenty people have done the job so can offer advise on how to tackle it and what parts are required,not a cheap job but if you are capable considerable money can be saved over garage repairs.

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2016, 01:12:17 PM »
The clue here is the amount air present in your system when removing the cap,

Chris, its a car I've had since 130k (now 220k), and not had any coolant problems in that time.
This recent episode has shown water in the battery tray. I thought maybe just rainwater, but am now realising that it is probably coolant,

@Chrispb and @johnnyroper, I will post back when I have an answer on the pressure in the coolant expansion tank, which I now understand is crucial. In the meantime I shall start HG research on this forum. Thank you.

Offline bonkers

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2016, 02:25:42 PM »
Hi Bonkers, where are these pipes, can you help me locate them?
Thanks
sorry missed your post. The pipes are here I no longer have my galaxy so it's the only photo I have, its not very clear. The new pipes I fitted were these
they were not cheap vw main dealer only part.

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Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2016, 08:08:01 PM »
sorry missed your post. The pipes are here I no longer have my galaxy so it's the only photo I have, its not very clear. The new pipes I fitted were these
they were not cheap vw main dealer only part.

Thank you!



Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2016, 01:58:28 PM »
Righty ho, thats done it, its the head gasket.
Yes there's pressure in the coolant expansion tank after emptying.
Also, I cable clipped a poly bag around the neck of the tank and it was drenched when rechecked.
Loss was through pressure relief area at base of neck of tank.

So thank you to everyone who helped get me this far.

I have decided to replace the Head Gasket,
and will take my time over it and use another car meantimes.

I've seen the advice on what else to do at the same time, ie belt, pump, thermostat, new 150pd head bolts and will do this too.

I wonder, has anyone seen a good step by step guide for head removal (mine's an AUY - 130 pd 1.9 diesel)?

Offline Mirez

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2016, 02:35:41 PM »
Hi Martin, it cant be an AUY 130.

The AUY is 115 and the ASZ is 130, there are subtle differences between heads so clarify before ordering anything.
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Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2016, 03:13:35 PM »
At least you now know what is causing the problem.

I can do a quick write up when have a bit of time at work later as I did mine a while back,it will be for AUY engine not the ASZ although the basics should be the same.

Have a look for the sticker on top timing cover it should give engine code on there.
If you are also going to do injector seals while out give me a shout as I have the fitting tool you can borrow for cost of postage,same goes for cam and crank locking tools if you want to borrow them.

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2016, 09:04:09 PM »
Mirez and johnnyroper - It's an AUY 115 (my mistake)

johnnyroper - that is very generous of you, thank you, I may well get back to you on that kind offer  :)
regarding the injector seals, is it a good idea to do them?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2016, 10:38:21 PM »
The injector seals do degrade over time so when I did my head I opted to change them while it was in bits. If you have head pressure checked they will need to come out.
Although I didn't have mine pressure tested or skimmed as it was clearly a gasket failure causing it.
No problem let me know if you need to borrow them.
I will try and get a brief write up done later after I have finished dealing with broken trains.

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2016, 11:45:07 PM »
Thank you!
(I hope that's not commuting on broken trains at 10.38pm)

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2016, 12:02:35 AM »
Thankfully no getting broken trains ready for the mornings commuters.

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2016, 12:37:24 AM »
Brief run down of head removal.

To gain access the bulkhead extension piece,engine top cover,air box and top timing cover need to be removed.
Lower engine cover needs to be removed.
Remove alternator belt and tensioner (make sure you pin the tensioner) remove crank pulley. Support engine with trolley jack and piece of wood. Remove engine mount you will need to raise and lower the engine slightly to get at all the bolts.
Line up the timing marks and lock the cam and crank in position then remove the timing belt and tensioner.
Remove the air pipe on turbo 2 x 10mm head bolts and the breather pipe to rocker cover.
Remove boost pipe to egr valve,clamp and remove fuel pipes from filter to tandem pump.
Drain down cooling system,there are various coolant hoses to remove from egr cooler,water housing on side of head etc.
Coolant temp sensor wiring,cam sensor wiring,glow plug wiring,injector wiring will need disconnecting and moving out the way.
There are different ways to deal with the turbo I removed inlet manifold then loosened off the turbo oil drain tube from block,disconnected feed pipe from oil filter housing and the p clip bolts then took off turbo. Beware these can fracture when removing from turbo ideally you need a ground down spanner to grip the union while loosening the pipe. I then took exhaust flexi off and the boost outlet hose so I could undo manifold nuts and push turbo back and tie up out of the way. One member on here left it all on and lifted head off with manifolds in place.
Remove rocker cover (one bolt difficult to get on if inlet manifold/egr still fitted)
Slacken head bolts gradually in same order you would torque up

10 4 2 6 8
7 5 1 3 9
If manifold still on one of the bolts will not come out completely.
You should then be able to lift head off.

While it is off change the thermostat,water pump,timing belt kit,oil and filter also well worth cleaning inlet manifold and egr valve out. Also make sure the little restrictor in small coolant hose to expansion bottle is clear.

Refitting is reverse of removal but I turn crank back about 60 degrees so no chance of valves hitting pistons while tightening down. Once all torqued time cam then time up the crank and lock in place.

Torque settings for head bolts
Stage 1 40nm
Stage 2 60nm
Stage 3 90 degrees
Stage 4 90 degrees
In the following sequence

10 4 2 6 8
7 5 1 3 9
Cam cap bolts 8nm then 90 degrees, make sure you have a bit of silicone on caps 1 and 5 where the valve cover seals against them and head.

If you do injectors here is a write up.

http://workshop-manuals.com/skoda/octavia-mk2/drive_unit/1.9/77_kw_tdi_pd_engine/fuel_preparation_system_diesel_injection/repairing_diesel_direct_injection_system/removing_and_installing_the_unit_injector_(superb_ii_octavia_ii_fabia_ii_roomster)/install/

I didn't use the big calipers to align them I paint marked injector and head and for double measure put some feeler gauges in gap on opposite side of the clamp to see the distance then refitted injector in same place.

Sorry for the long winded post,once you get in to it most of the stuff I have said will become clear.

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2016, 12:40:39 AM »
Just to add if you have cam out or do injectors all the bolts need to replaced as they are all torque to yield types which does add considerable cost to the job.
For cam bolts,all bolts to do injectors plus the seal kits expect approx £100 on top of the head gasket parts.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2016, 10:29:16 AM »
Nice post Tony, with a few pictures from members it should be possible to do a decent writeup for the procedure!

O.P, there are a few other head gasket related threads with some images here and here.

Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2016, 11:16:00 AM »
Cheers Paul, it does need some pictures to illustrate the steps better. I should have took some when I did mine.

OP you can also look in reference library for details on timing belt,inlet manifold cleaning and turbo cleaning as those posts give details on how to remove the items.

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2016, 02:07:17 PM »
Wow!

A big thank you!

This will be done in stages.
I find that I cant do jobs in any sort of hurry; things go wrong and I stop enjoying it.
If I take my time, things still go wrong, but I can take my time to puzzle them out.

Todays puzzle is how to get at the lower engine-mount bolts.
I've done the top ones.
Having read johnnyroper's post, I shall head back out and lower the engine a little and see what I see.
(after I have printed off your great post and looked at insanitybeard's pictures.)

Nice sunny day - I have a cold corner of the front drive but even that is nice today!



Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2016, 02:12:21 PM »
If you mean the big cast iron bracket that bolts onto the side of the engine block than I covered removal of that here (5th and 6th images down). Long and short of it is you need a trolley jack so you can raise/ lower the engine as required to gain best access to the various bolts.

EDIT: D'oh, I see you must have already read that! IIRC the lower bolt can be accessed via the wheelarch whereas the rest are accessed by jacking the engine up as far as possible to allow you to get on them with a shallow socket/ ratchet, access to one in particular (it's the one circled purple in the image of the bracket from the top) does depend on whether your ratchet/ socket combo is narrow enough to fit into the available space though, other than that a ring spanner would do so long as you can get sufficient torque on it.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 02:21:51 PM by insanitybeard »
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2016, 02:47:38 PM »
That bracket can be an awkward one to remove as Paul says the lower one comes out from wheel arch,the others need engine moving up and down to on them. Also if memory serves correctly on of them has to be left in the bracket and removed from engine bay together as there is not enough room to slide it out.

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2016, 07:36:47 PM »
If you mean the big cast iron bracket that bolts onto the side of the engine block than I covered removal of that EDIT:[/b] D'oh, I see you must have already read that!

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2016, 07:42:35 PM »
I wish I had read it.
I've spent the afternoon removing that lump and it is indeed tricky and cumbersome.
Its off now.
I'm actually pondering the cleverest way to replace it, although at this stage I cant even see the holes for the bolts.
Anyway, that's a treat for later on.

Your post is going to be extremely useful tomorrow when I move on to the crankshaft pulley.

Thanks so much for the benefit of your experience!



Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2016, 07:44:16 PM »

and to you johnnyroper "Thanks so much for the benefit of your experience!"

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2016, 07:50:57 PM »
No problem any questions just ask And hopefully someone on here can help you out.

Surprisingly the mount goes back on easier than it came off,probably to do with knowing how to negotiate the bolts now.
The crank pulley bolts can be rather tight try giving the Allen key socket a tap to make sure it is fully inserted before attempting to undo.

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2016, 07:55:43 PM »
Thank you!

off topic but earlier in this job... I had an interesting time replacing the brushes (with modified ones) in the run-on pump. Almost impossible because of the springs closing the brushes, until a friend advised that I set the gap with a matchstick, soak the brushes in water; freeze it all; remove the matchstick and insert the commutator body into the gap between the frozen static brushes. It worked a treat and might help someone.  (I will hunt out where best to post this)

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2016, 10:21:50 PM »
That sounds easier to do than using cotton,proper fiddly job that was

Offline Mirez

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2016, 10:50:27 PM »
Yeah I'm liking the sound of that, I too used cotton and it was a royal PITA to do!!
03 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 115 Ghia in Spruce Green Metallic
With cream leather interior, Full Bodykit, Remapped at 145bhp, Lowered on 18's
06 VW EOS 2.0 T-FSI 210 Sport in Deep Black Pearl
With red leather interior with full Caractere bodykit, Remapped at 255bhp and sitting on 19's
14 VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI 177 R-Line in Deep Black Pearl
With black leather interior, panoramic sunroof and bi-xenon headlights.
08 Ford Transit 2.2 TDI 115 in Frozen White
With retrofitted everything except another slidey door! :)

VCDS HEX/CAN - Scans/Coding done in Wiltshire in exchange for winegums! :)

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2016, 09:47:02 PM »
Yes, I used cotton first and sort of did it. Intermittent running then stopping. - PITA indeed!!
Using the matchstick and freezing method, I did the replacement in minutes (apart from the time when it was all in the freezer).
I have found the post on brush replacement and will add it there.

Meantimes, I have been unable to take off two of the crank pulley 7mm hex bolts.
So am now waiting for delivery of my 1/2'' drive hex bits and socket.

Project is sort of on hold for a few days, but i will use the time to take off other bits, clean and label.

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2016, 09:57:12 PM »

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2017, 04:48:53 PM »
Just a brief update.
Problems with the hex bolts on the crank pulley had slowed things down a little.
Tricky little things they were.
2 of the 4 came out relatively easily, but the third broke my driver!
In the end a 6mm (rather than a 7mm) fitted one because it was so mangled, and the last one came out when a 12mm socket was hammered onto it (that worked well, if anyone has the same problem - but will mean buying new bolts)
Now I will be hunting for the correct specification of these bolts and a place that will sell them.
I wonder about replacing them with normal bolts and wonder if anyone has done this?

(Tomorrow the cam belt covers come off - slowly but surely it's progressing)

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2017, 05:29:39 PM »
I may have a few of those bolts (my old ones- non-mangled- if I haven't chucked them out!) spare if you need some as I replaced them when I changed the cambelt, will have to see if I can find them!
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2017, 06:12:24 PM »
I had same issue and had to hammer a 12 point 12mm socket on to remove one of them,the heads really are made of toffee...... I didn't bother with using correct bolts if memory serves correctly a standard m8 with 13mm head worked fine.

Don't forget I have the correct locking tools should you need them when it comes to putting back together. Taking apart lining crank up and paint marking cam and crank will suffice.

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2017, 07:05:31 PM »
Gentlemen, "thank you" both.
I shall have a look a M8 x 13mm heads as I will need to do the job again, I hope, when I next do a cambelt change. I found these bolts so horrible, toffee indeed, that I'd like to try a different bolt-head.

johnnyroper- thanks for the tool offer; I must have misunderstood previous posts as I've now got te set. Anyway, as I said, I hope to be doing the job again!!

There is a question I would like to get an opinion on, if you don't mind;
20,000 miles ago the cambelt was changed and it looks good, as far as I can see now. Proper inspection to come after removal.
I'm thinking that I might not replace it as it's probably got 50,000 miles left in it. What do you think?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2017, 07:45:02 PM »
Personally as it is apart I would renew again,I know it's more money to spend but it's just for sake of peace of mind that it won't need touching for a long time.

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2017, 08:00:32 PM »
Thank you; and as the more accurate figures are 180k replacement and now 210k that puts even more weight on the replacement side of the balance.
I have read variously on the forum that tensioner, water-pump and idler pulley should all be done at the same time as the cam-belt.
Would you recommend replacing all those oarts in this case?

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2017, 08:43:07 PM »
The official line is that a timing belt should be renewed whenever it is de-tensioned and removed, and being that your old one has done 30k there's no way I'd even consider re-using it. The tensioner/ water pump/ idlers etc are possibly not so critical if they've been replaced relatively recently but if you're doing major engine work then you'll be shelling out a bit anyway and for a little bit more cost you can have peace of mind that it's all been done and shouldn't need doing again for quite some time. Having said that, even with this approach there's still a chance of some setback- I ended end changing the timing belt twice within 5k because the water pump I fitted to begin with began to leak from the shaft seal......  ::)

P.S, the torque figure quoted for those crank pulley bolts in the Haynes is daft and I'd argue borderline unachievable considering the size of the bolt head- 10nm plus 90o- there was no way on this god's earth I could get a quarter turn out of them after stage 1, even using an impact gun!
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline martinrichard

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2017, 09:48:51 PM »
Thanks again, I think I'll change the lot and start hunting for the best price.
That high torque could explain why the crank pulley bolts were so hard to get off, if the last repairer had set them at that torque.
I've just ordered some normal M8 bolts for a few pounds. An investment, in case I have to take it all apart again!

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Water leak from rear nearside of engine compartment
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2017, 10:27:48 PM »
I found a gates kit including water pump for about £80 I think it was,might be slightly different if had hydraulic tensioner?
As it has done 30k I would definitely be changing as a complete kit as I wouldn't let it do more than 40k between changes no matter what the recommended change interval is.

As for the crank bolts I wouldn't be putting 10nm plus 90 degrees on them a standard 8.8 m8 will take about 25nm so I would be aiming for max 22nm if you get 10.9 go for around 30nm.

 

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