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Author Topic: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater  (Read 9812 times)

Offline insanitybeard

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Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« on: December 09, 2013, 04:58:51 PM »
Apologies for yet another booster heater problem thread, unfortunately I fear mine is gonna need a bit more than just a glow plug strip rebuild to fix!

My '54 plate Galaxy has the D5Z-F booster fitted (which I presume has the later type glowplug with wires attached) and it is very erratic in it's operation..... I have no problems with smoke when it does run but there is no pattern to when it chooses to operate, it has started up and run with the outside temperature at about +4 deg. C several times yet when it was -1 the other day.... nothing.

Fault codes that have been picked up are:
1) Glow plug open circuit
2) Glow plug short circuit to ground

If memory serves I'm fairly sure several owners (Silverbeast possibly....  ;) ) have experienced this with the later D5Z-F heaters with the internal ECU components in the heater being suspect as the cause.....
Can anybody shed any more light on this? I'd rather be changing a glow plug than having to find a complete substitute heater unit- as documented the ECU part isn't much less than a complete unit!

 Any thoughts appreciated!
    Paul
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline SilverBeast

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 08:54:45 PM »
Those are the faults I got before and after I stripped and rebuilt my original heater.  I didn't replace anything on my original heater apart from the round chamber gasket.  Be aware the gaskets are different than those for the earlier models, though the main round one for the burner chamber is the same. That's the one I replaced.
I checked the plug by connecting it to a car battery and it appeared to work.  I didn't leave it too long though as I believe from the part number it is only an 8V glow plug.

I have plenty of pictures and intend to do a how to for stripping and removal at some point.

You will need it off the car for some time as it is likely that several of the screws will shear and need drilling out and helicoiling, most of mine did.  If you leave the long water hose on the car and the short hose on the heater then you can bend the long hose into a loop and connect it up to the aluminimum  coolant pipe the short hose came off. You can then use the car like this while you work on (battle with!) the heater.  Don't forget to plug the diesel hose and protect the wiring connector from the elements.

As you said though mine only got "fixed" by replacement!

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2013, 11:44:16 AM »
Thanks for that Silverbeast, I'd better start looking for a replacement, getting one from a breaker is going to be a lottery because there's a good chance it will have the same problem! I've seen a few Mercedes fitment D5Z-F's on ebay but I wonder if they have different multiplug connectors or different programming meaning they can't be slotted in as a direct replacement.... I used to work in Ford parts and even with my old buddies selling it at near cost it'll be £425 by the time you add the VAT if I go for a new one from them!  :(
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2013, 12:23:36 PM »
Further to this I see carheaters.eu offer a 'rapair' (!) service for the D5Z-F ECU at £120, does anybody have experience of these people? I'm happy to spend the money to get it sorted as long as it's a genuine service but if it's going to be a load of bother I'm better saving the cash for a complete replacement unit!

   http://carheaters.eu/?155,hydronic-ii-d5z-f-12v-ecu-rapair
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Offline Mirez

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2013, 06:21:45 PM »
I think I'd ask them exactly what they do for that, repair (or even rapair! ) services are to fix a specific fault normally - they don't say what they are fixing!!!
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2013, 06:28:43 PM »
Very true, though with (by the looks of it) not the best English I'm not sure how much sense I would get! There's somebody in Germany (wwtrade24) with a few new ones for sale at about £340 including delivery, I'm thinking that may be the way to go if I can stomach the cost, just have to get christmas out of the way first!
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Offline Mirez

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2013, 06:34:16 PM »
As another alternative, maybe see if you can find an earlier version on ebay with the wiring connectors for both ends and swap it out? Granted its more work but the earlier heater, bar the plug, is at least reliable in all other respects.
03 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 115 Ghia in Spruce Green Metallic
With cream leather interior, Full Bodykit, Remapped at 145bhp, Lowered on 18's
06 VW EOS 2.0 T-FSI 210 Sport in Deep Black Pearl
With red leather interior with full Caractere bodykit, Remapped at 255bhp and sitting on 19's
14 VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI 177 R-Line in Deep Black Pearl
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With retrofitted everything except another slidey door! :)

VCDS HEX/CAN - Scans/Coding done in Wiltshire in exchange for winegums! :)

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2013, 06:44:59 PM »
Good point, I'll give that some thought..... How daft that the later heater should be more problematical than the earlier one! Unless cost saving had anything to do with it of course.....  ::)
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Offline Mirez

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2013, 07:19:35 PM »
Possibly, but then it looks more over engineered then the previous if anything!
03 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 115 Ghia in Spruce Green Metallic
With cream leather interior, Full Bodykit, Remapped at 145bhp, Lowered on 18's
06 VW EOS 2.0 T-FSI 210 Sport in Deep Black Pearl
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14 VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI 177 R-Line in Deep Black Pearl
With black leather interior, panoramic sunroof and bi-xenon headlights.
08 Ford Transit 2.2 TDI 115 in Frozen White
With retrofitted everything except another slidey door! :)

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Offline SilverBeast

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Offline gregers

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2013, 08:57:11 PM »
shame you dont need a d5wz,as ive got 1 of these with a new plug fitted to it.
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2013, 11:26:11 AM »
Silverbeast, I did see that thread in the 'other' place  ;) The poor English and lack of info about them makes me dubious, I think I'd rather stump up the extra to get a complete replacement unit such as the ones on ebay in Germany:

      http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331079388374?ssPageName=STRK:MEBOFFX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1427.l2649

So (as you said in the other thread) the secondary water pump does not run on in the later model Galaxies and may be a factor in causing the electronics in the booster to overheat if the booster heater has run up to the point where the ignition is switched off? Interesting, in which case trying to substitute an earlier model of heater may result in a similar problem.

Thanks Gregers, retro fitting an earlier model may be an option yet!
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline Chrispb

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2013, 11:41:13 AM »
Just a bit of extra info for you if your considering changing a D5Z-F to a D5WZ
The heater carrier bracket is different and also the multiplug is just a tad different.

I sold a D5WZ a few years back and got the feed back from the chap, once he'd overcome these problems the heater worked fine.
2009 Kia Sedona GS In Black 2.9CRDI 183PS. 5 Speed Manual WAV.
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Upgraded Eberspächer booster heater  to independent heating with 7 day timer.

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Offline SilverBeast

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2013, 05:57:33 PM »
I believe it's only the 130 and 150's that don't run on.

If I and correct (and gregers/chrispb will know) the electronics for the earlier models are in the end of the heater, not sat on top, so shouldn't get quite so hot either.  I don't recall reading of any controller failures (in a 2/3 years of reading the Forums) on the D5WZ, just glow plugs, flame grills and the external dosing pumps getting corrosion on the wiring connectors.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2013, 06:39:32 PM »
I see, so the D5Z-F ECU is housed in that bulge on the top cover plate that is absent on the D5W-Z....... Is it only the D5Z-F's that have the glow plug with integrated wiring or do the later type D5W-Z's have them as well? If the D5W-Z is going to be more reliable in the long run that may be a better option, if I can get the carrier bracket to fit it..... and I wonder how different the connector is...... I've dismantled a few multiplug connectors in my time..... What to do.....  ???
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Offline Chrispb

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2013, 07:16:05 PM »
Another option is to get a heater with the bracket  from a breaker and cut a piece of the loom with the plug on then splice it to yours.
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Offline SilverBeast

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2013, 11:52:21 PM »
Here's my "old" D5Z-F with the plastic covers off the top
1809-0

The Control PCB is in the casting with the wire going into it.  And here's the best shot I have of the connector on it.

1811-1

The pdf here https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/galaxy-mk2-auxiliary-booster-heater-guide/ shows the  layout and positioning of the D5W-Z

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2013, 10:08:58 AM »
Thanks for that info Silverbeast! I shall study and digest before trying to formulate a plan!

And thanks for the suggestion Chris.

 cheers
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2014, 01:32:54 PM »
Done a bit more digging...... I see somebody in Germany is selling the ECU only on ebay for a fair sight less than the complete thing...... I might go down this route!  :P Still deciding, but I need to get the money together first anyway!
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Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2015, 01:40:10 PM »
And finally, I've bought a new one from Germany a damn sight cheaper than I could have got it from any UK sellers or Ford themselves- £285 including shipping and paypal currency conversion into Euros. The only thing is the body casting doesn't come with threads tapped to secure it to the mounting bracket which means I'll need to get an M6x1 tap and do that myself. I'm planning on binning all the standard zinc plated steel screws/ fasteners the unit is supplied with for stainless ones, which will be installed with anti-sieze compound to stop 'em all shearing off if and when I need to remove the unit for service in the future! My old unit with depotted ECU (and sheared screws) is for sale if anybody is interested and fancies trying to resurrect it, I'm sure it's the standard duff ECU that caused it to stop working. More pictures of the old and new units to follow in due course!

4116-0

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Offline bigdave982

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2015, 05:50:18 PM »
Be interesting to see ifvagcom talks to it, my understanding is if it aint vw branded then it wont
This is where tou tell me it is vw branded ☺

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2015, 06:11:26 PM »
It's got the pukka VW multiplug on it, it's even got the VW 7M3 unit part number on the labels!

4118-0


Old unit & depotted ECU (I have the plastic top covers for the unit as well):

4120-1
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 06:39:03 PM by insanitybeard »
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Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2015, 10:49:46 PM »
Don't know if was on here or vw forum but remember reading about someone relocating the ecu in to a seperate box to prevent future failure from excessive heat??


Offline niall

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2015, 12:45:25 AM »
Twas me!!!!!

here's the Link....https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy/auxillary-heater-yet-again/

Insanity beard.....how much do you want for the controller ecu board?

N.

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2017, 07:20:05 PM »
1: From where did you guys buy a new unit? looking for phones or links please

2: IS buying a used one any good?


3: What happens to the car if you do not use this item?

Offline johnnyroper

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2017, 07:24:52 PM »
If you don't use it then warm up times in winter are longer.

As for used if it's the later type with problematic ecu then you cannot be sure it will work and for how long it will work if it does.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: Yes really..... Malfunctioning D5Z-F booster heater
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2017, 07:28:23 PM »
1) Link to the (German) seller I got mine from in this post.

2) Buying a used D5Z-F is a complete lottery in my opinion, as they are so troublesome you may buy something that's no better than what you've got. If you were to try to retrofit the older D5W-Z heater buying a used one may not be so bad.

3) If the booster is not fitted or working (my car has not had one fitted for over 2 years and I've still not fitted the new one I bought) then the car takes much longer to heat up (engine and cabin heaters/ blowers).

You do of course need to check what model of heater you have fitted before going too far, don't take my word as gospel that you have this model of heater fitted!
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