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Author Topic: Ford Transit 2.2 TDCI cuts out when cold (Mk7)  (Read 255 times)

Offline TobyTransit

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Ford Transit 2.2 TDCI cuts out when cold (Mk7)
« on: September 10, 2020, 01:47:11 PM »
Any thoughts on what might be causing this as really starting to do my noodle now!

Starts on the key without hesitation and then runs at idle, clutch in and move it forward, clutch in to stop and it cuts out (stalls). Nice soft stop as well not a harsh stall. Does it about twice, then will run happily all day long until it cools down again.

Changed EGR, serviced it, pump and pilot learns done and no error codes at all. Have logged the signals when it does and you can see it just bleeds away to a stall so not sure what to check or change next :(

7106-0

Offline Mirez

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Re: Ford Transit 2.2 TDCI cuts out when cold (Mk7)
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2020, 05:52:33 PM »
I keep meaning to reply to this as I've just gone through something almost identical and there is very little help out there!

It will likely be caused by a failing PCV (Pressure Control Valve) which will stop the common rail building pressure initially, as it warms up a little it seems to respond better. Looking at your log you want to run that again, but change your multiplier value (bottom right of the screen) to 1:1 or 2:1. That'll show the issue far better then you can see from 5:1.

Take a look at my log here:
7139-0

So firstly note the actual fuel rail pressure (Green) which is erratic. The SCV (Suction Control Valve) should be regulating it however with a failing PCV fuel is being erratically returned to the pump even though the rail pressure is low (or at least well below the safe pressure point it should open!), the SCV opens the tap a little more to compensate and then has to dial it back which is why the Green line is jumpy. The blue line is what the ECU is asking for which is a constant pressure to hold the engine at idle.

Now, when we tap the throttle (14.45ms) you can see the ECU asks for a small increase in pressure but that the rail pressure jumps up quickly. Not expecting that, the ECU asks for less pressure and the SCV responds however it's unaware that the PCV is still literally dumping fuel back into the pump so we see the rail pressure collapse. The ECU makes a last ditch effort request to raise the pressure however the engine is already well below 600rpm and consequently our mechanical fuel pump isn't providing pressurised fuel. Opening the SCV further therefore makes no difference and the engine finally stalls at 16.87ms where the ECU ceases asking for any fuel.

You can also see on this graph that the same happens on the initial restart, the rail pressure spikes but there the ECU is in a 'start condition' so the pressure reduction request is more subtle and the rail pressure levels off.


03 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 115 Ghia in Spruce Green Metallic
With cream leather interior, Full Bodykit, Remapped at 145bhp, Lowered on 18's
14 VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI 177 AWD R-Line in Deep Black Pearl
With panoramic sunroof, bi-xenon headlights remapped at 205bhp.
08 Ford Transit 2.2 TDI 115 in Frozen White
With retrofitted everything except another slidey door! :)

VCDS HEX/CAN - Scans/Coding done in Wiltshire in exchange for winegums! :)

Offline mike wilson

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Re: Ford Transit 2.2 TDCI cuts out when cold (Mk7)
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2020, 09:53:09 AM »
I wonder if this is related to my cold stalling problem?

Offline Mirez

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Re: Ford Transit 2.2 TDCI cuts out when cold (Mk7)
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2020, 10:38:40 AM »
If its got a Denso fuel system in it (it probably has btw) then it'll be the problem  ::) ;D

In seriousness though, you need to measure the rail pressure to fully understand if this is whats happening. If you start it and then let it idle with no input at all, does the idle start fluctuating after 30/40 seconds? I'm not that up on the 2.0 or its origins, the 2.2 we are discussing here is a Ford/Peugeot joint venture and whilst I am fairly sure they did do a 2.0, I'm uncertain if that ever made its way into the Galaxy however Ford have been with Denso for a fair few years now so chances are this is along the lines of what you have with that engine.
03 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 115 Ghia in Spruce Green Metallic
With cream leather interior, Full Bodykit, Remapped at 145bhp, Lowered on 18's
14 VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI 177 AWD R-Line in Deep Black Pearl
With panoramic sunroof, bi-xenon headlights remapped at 205bhp.
08 Ford Transit 2.2 TDI 115 in Frozen White
With retrofitted everything except another slidey door! :)

VCDS HEX/CAN - Scans/Coding done in Wiltshire in exchange for winegums! :)

Offline TobyTransit

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Re: Ford Transit 2.2 TDCI cuts out when cold (Mk7)
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2020, 04:39:33 PM »
THANKS!

Thats really helpful and I will relog it tonight. What am I looking to log? Same as yours? What are they?

Offline Mirez

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Re: Ford Transit 2.2 TDCI cuts out when cold (Mk7)
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2020, 04:42:50 PM »
Log these four, remember the more PIDS you add the slower the response rate so keep it to just the four or even just the top two.


FRP, Kpa
Fuel Rail Pressure in Kilopascals. Shows rail pressure as calculated.

FRP_DSD, Kpa
Fuel Rail Pressure, Desired (in Kilopascals). Shows requested pressure from the ECU

FRP_V, V
Fuel Rail Pressure, Voltage. Shows the signal value from the rail sensor. Ie, the raw signal

RPM
Log it with the revs as well so you can see when the engine starts to die.
03 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 115 Ghia in Spruce Green Metallic
With cream leather interior, Full Bodykit, Remapped at 145bhp, Lowered on 18's
14 VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI 177 AWD R-Line in Deep Black Pearl
With panoramic sunroof, bi-xenon headlights remapped at 205bhp.
08 Ford Transit 2.2 TDI 115 in Frozen White
With retrofitted everything except another slidey door! :)

VCDS HEX/CAN - Scans/Coding done in Wiltshire in exchange for winegums! :)

Offline mike wilson

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  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: Ford Transit 2.2 TDCI cuts out when cold (Mk7)
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2020, 04:03:49 PM »
If its got a Denso fuel system in it (it probably has btw) then it'll be the problem  ::) ;D

In seriousness though, you need to measure the rail pressure to fully understand if this is whats happening. If you start it and then let it idle with no input at all, does the idle start fluctuating after 30/40 seconds? I'm not that up on the 2.0 or its origins, the 2.2 we are discussing here is a Ford/Peugeot joint venture and whilst I am fairly sure they did do a 2.0, I'm uncertain if that ever made its way into the Galaxy however Ford have been with Denso for a fair few years now so chances are this is along the lines of what you have with that engine.

The engine business is a minefield for research.  As far as I can see both the 2.0 and 2.2 are almost identical designs, making me think that they are from the same manufacturer.  The ZSD Puma line of 2.0 litre (1,998cc) Ford engines produced after 2002 only made 115HP, so they seem to be ruled out.  I don't have dates for the 2.2 (2,198cc) but they made up to 155HP.

The 2.0 litre (1997cc) DW10 PSA unit was used as the basis for a joint family of engines with Ford.  The DW12 2.2 (2,179cc) litre engine was added to the Ford/PSA series in 2006, presumably replacing the Puma line - although they were later used in Citroen and Peugeot LCD vans.  Confused yet?  I certainly am.  Seems the only way you can be sure which engine you have without taking it apart is the capacity as written on the V5.

Offline Mirez

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  • Spec: 03 115PS Ghia
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Re: Ford Transit 2.2 TDCI cuts out when cold (Mk7)
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2020, 09:57:58 AM »
The 2.2 in the transit is the Puma engine which is largely a bored out 2.0 so this would apply to the 2.0 puma engine, but not the newer revision. They really could make it easier but I guess they don't care all that much :)

Thought I'd share the main components of the Denso fuel system that need to be looked at if you have dodgy fuel pressure.
7178-0

A is the Fuel Pressure Sensor
B is the Pressure Release Valve (PRV)
C is the Suction Control Valve (SCV)

03 Ford Galaxy 1.9 TDI 115 Ghia in Spruce Green Metallic
With cream leather interior, Full Bodykit, Remapped at 145bhp, Lowered on 18's
14 VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI 177 AWD R-Line in Deep Black Pearl
With panoramic sunroof, bi-xenon headlights remapped at 205bhp.
08 Ford Transit 2.2 TDI 115 in Frozen White
With retrofitted everything except another slidey door! :)

VCDS HEX/CAN - Scans/Coding done in Wiltshire in exchange for winegums! :)

 

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