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Large MPVs -- Ford Galaxy / VW Sharan / SEAT Alhambra: => Mk3 Ford Galaxy / Ford S-Max => Topic started by: darbuck on November 30, 2015, 07:42:18 PM

Title: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: darbuck on November 30, 2015, 07:42:18 PM
timing belt broke on my 2010 1.8 tdci. is it worth doing the engine or should i just replace it. was thinking about pulling the head off it myself and getting it repaired or would there be damage further down? its covered 192000 kms! any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: Chrispb on November 30, 2015, 09:12:15 PM
It's always a gamble, if you have the time and are not in a rush to get it back on the road then yes it's worth pulling the head off and inspect the damage, but there's no guarantee it's confined to the head.
Damage to pistons even bent con rods can result from valve/piston contact.

When you say the belt broke was this the pump to cam belt or the crank to pump cassette belt/chain.

If you were to replace whole engine would you go secondhand or new? if going down the secondhand route seriously consider changing the cassette and the cam belt prior to fitting engine.
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: darbuck on November 30, 2015, 10:21:06 PM
It was the pump to cam belt. I would be putting a second hand engine in it if I am to go that way. If I pull the head off would I know from just looking down on the pistons if there was damage further down? Thanks for the reply.
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: insanitybeard on November 30, 2015, 11:31:08 PM
The usual indicators will be bent valves (i.e, they can't close fully) or marks/ damage to the piston crowns. In severe cases the camshaft and or bearing caps can fracture/ snap. It is possible to get (and I have seen) bent valves from piston impact which hadn't damaged or significantly marked the piston crowns, if the crowns look ok then the bottom end of the engine may have escaped damage, but to be sure you haven't got bent rods, the usual test involves using a DTI (dial test indicator) gauge to check piston protrusion with each cylinder at TDC, though if you raise in turn cylinders 1&4 and 2&3 to TDC you will easily spot any significant difference in piston height.
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: Chrispb on December 01, 2015, 12:32:06 AM
As Paul just said the cam bearing caps, cam followers, camshafts usually come off worse in this scenario, if you are unlucky enough to have lower end damage it should be pretty obvious, small marks on piston crowns if any can probably be ignored but certainly measure piston height if there are any contact marks.
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: darbuck on December 01, 2015, 08:17:13 AM
Thanks again for the replies Chris and paul. I am going to take the head off and see whats what.
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: darbuck on December 28, 2015, 03:41:45 PM
ok so i got the head off and as thought the valves were damaged. also had damage to two of the pistons. just wondering if anyone knows about removing these. i have the oil pan off but there dosent seem to be any easy access to the con rods.
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: darbuck on December 28, 2015, 03:57:15 PM
heres a few pictures of the damage!
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: Chrispb on December 28, 2015, 05:34:12 PM
I can't tell from your photo's if there is any damage to cylinder walls because if there is then I think your wasting your time.
If there isn't then you'll need to remove what's called the ladder rack, this is a casting that sits between the sump and cylinder block it gives the block more strength.
There's usually another row of bolts visible to remove you'll also need to remove the oil pick up pipe/strainer I can't tell you any more than that as I haven't done the job on this engine.
When/if you get to the point where you remove big end caps make sure you note what way round they are fitted and keep each cap and conrod together as they are machined pairs.
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: insanitybeard on December 28, 2015, 10:14:20 PM
As Chris says, you'll need to remove the stiffener casting (item 6U004 here (http://eucatparts.com/?action=cat_ford_part&s_id_part=1188897&s_id_model=118&s_code_image=C012239205)) in order to access the main bearing caps & big ends.
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: johnnyroper on December 30, 2015, 11:32:17 AM
Have you measured piston protrusion on each cylinder?
I have seen piston crowns in worse shape than that when I worked at Vauxhall but little ends,big ends and conrods escaped any damage due to piston material being softer than con rods.
Anything amiss with con rod or ends will be easily noticed when measuring protrusion.
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: johnnyroper on December 30, 2015, 11:35:38 AM
a taxi driver I know at work has had 2 of them break in mondeos and those punched holes in Pistons but did no rod damage.
It's a poor set up having a belt driving pump from crank that sits inside the sump.
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: darbuck on January 10, 2016, 11:51:05 PM
thanks for all the replies fellas. just a quick update, put her all back together today, filled the diesel filter and hand pumped the diesel through the system and she fired up second time of asking. running like a clock. fairly happy with myself as i never attempted anything like this before, and did it all for a fraction of the cost of a replacement engine. half of the cost came from buying the correct tools to do the job, torque wrench, locking kit, etc. thanks again for all your help.
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: Chrispb on January 11, 2016, 07:07:27 PM
OK Darragh well done for a successfull job done, perhaps when you have time you could give a more detailed write up on what you did and what you replaced and if you have any more pictures that would be great :) :) :)
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: gregers on January 11, 2016, 09:23:02 PM
 clapping and jumping [GJ]
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: mike wilson on January 14, 2016, 09:10:02 AM
half of the cost came from buying the correct tools to do the job, torque wrench, locking kit, etc. thanks again for all your help.

Could you let us know what locking kit you bought?  I purchased a few (allegedly) for this engine, none of which were correct, from both Ebay and Amazon.  It may be that there are variations between models but all of them were unusable, the differences were so profound.
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: darbuck on January 14, 2016, 08:31:05 PM
Either of these two kits will do the job for you.
Title: Re: mk3 timing belt broke!!!
Post by: mike wilson on January 21, 2016, 08:55:18 AM
Thanks.  Neither of those look like the kits I sourced.  The ones I bought had many more parts and were twice the price, in the case of your Ebay one.  Those look much more like the ones I was expecting to receive.