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Author Topic: Powershift Gearbox odd behaviour or is it normal?  (Read 8250 times)

Offline Daza101

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  • Posts: 34
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  • Model: Galaxy Mk3 Auto
  • Spec: 13 TDI 140 Titan X
  • Region: South East
Powershift Gearbox odd behaviour or is it normal?
« on: January 17, 2017, 10:14:04 AM »
I've owned a 2013 Galaxy Titanium X 2.0D 140PS with Powershift gearbox for around 16 months and have always had a concern about the way it drives particularly at slow speed in stop start traffic. If you have a similar spec vehicle I'd be very interested if yours behaves the same or differently.

There seems to be two related issues....
1. If driving in slow moving, stop/start, traffic between 0 and 15mph the car generally stays in 2nd gear and as you go to pick up speed it feels like it's riding the clutch or the clutch is failing to disengage properly. The best way to describe it is when you see an old lady attempting to pull away in a manual with very poor clutch control.

2. Sometimes when I come to a stop then immediately go to pull away there is a delay before the gearbox drops into 1st gear. This results more often than not in pulling away in 2nd gear and as above a feeling of riding the clutch/clutch slow to disengage. This can be very dangerous if attempting to pull out of a junction or onto a roundabout because the vehicle is much slower than expected to pull away. To work around this I generally come to a complete stop, sit for a second or two, then pull away as the box has had time to drop into 1st but this isn't ideal because the drivers behind don't always expect such a delay. Alternatively sometimes if I'm in traffic or coming to a junction/roundabout I switch the gearbox into manual and force it into 1st myself.

Shortly after purchasing the vehicle from a Ford main dealer I highlighted my concerns about the way it drove. Initially they performed a gearbox recalibration of the clutches & forks and a software update but it made no difference. I was then told by the dealership and by a Ford gearbox expert who they brought in that my car was totally normal and that's how they all drive with a Powershift box.
I suspect the above is causing premature wearing of the clutches because a few months later I started getting juddering in 2nd & 3rd gear. The clutch pack, gearbox oil and filter were changed at 30k miles and while this cured the juddering the sensation of ridding the clutch has always been the same. 

I'm aware that the Powershift gearbox isn't like a traditional automatic but I find the above behaviour very odd and isn't exactly nice to drive. If all Galaxys or indeed all vehicles fitted with a Powershift behaved like this then I'm sure there would be many complaints from owners.

I'd welcome your experiences with a Powershift box.

thanks

Offline mike wilson

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk3
  • Spec: 14 TitX 2.0TDCI
  • Region: North East
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: Powershift Gearbox odd behaviour or is it normal?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2017, 09:27:40 AM »
Can't help you for sure but there is a wealth of information here:
http://www.talkford.com/community/forum/278-drivetrain-mk4-mondeo/

Specifically this thread:
http://www.talkford.com/community/topic/231743-powershift-problems/
TreborB on there seems to know what he is talking about and is an auto box engineer, I think.

I'm also curious about the "changed clutch pack" bit - my understanding is that the clutches are inside the Powershift boxes, so would necessitate removal/dismantling to be changed.  Must be at least a full day's work at a properly resourced workshop.  Does that sound likely?

Powershift boxes also do not use ordinary ATF.  Mistakenly adding ATF can cause multiple problems, the only answer to which is complete stripdown and cleaning.

FWIW, what you describe is _not_ normal on any level - it's actually downright dangerous.

Offline Daza101

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  • Posts: 34
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  • Model: Galaxy Mk3 Auto
  • Spec: 13 TDI 140 Titan X
  • Region: South East
Re: Powershift Gearbox odd behaviour or is it normal?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2017, 10:02:28 AM »
Can't help you for sure but there is a wealth of information here:
http://www.talkford.com/community/forum/278-drivetrain-mk4-mondeo/

Specifically this thread:
http://www.talkford.com/community/topic/231743-powershift-problems/
TreborB on there seems to know what he is talking about and is an auto box engineer, I think.

I'm also curious about the "changed clutch pack" bit - my understanding is that the clutches are inside the Powershift boxes, so would necessitate removal/dismantling to be changed.  Must be at least a full day's work at a properly resourced workshop.  Does that sound likely?

Powershift boxes also do not use ordinary ATF.  Mistakenly adding ATF can cause multiple problems, the only answer to which is complete stripdown and cleaning.

FWIW, what you describe is _not_ normal on any level - it's actually downright dangerous.

Mike
Thanks for your reply, I'll look through the threads you listed.

Prior to the clutch pack being replaced the vehicle had been into the main dealer 4 or 5 times for testing and I was told data had been gathered and sent to Ford technical.
Ford eventually authorised the replacement of the clutch pack and associated gearbox oil and filter under warranty because the vehicle was under 3 years old at the time. The gearbox was definitely removed and they had the vehicle for around a week.

Offline Daza101

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk3 Auto
  • Spec: 13 TDI 140 Titan X
  • Region: South East
Re: Powershift Gearbox odd behaviour or is it normal?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2017, 11:47:43 PM »
I test drove an identical spec Galaxy 140bhp 2l Diesel with Powershift gearbox yesterday and it behaves exactly the same as mine - feeling of ridding the clutch resulting in lack of acceleration at low speeds.

If in slow moving traffic up to 10mph it feels like it's ridding the clutch for a couple of seconds as you try to pick up speed in 2nd gear.
The test car, like mine, also had a delay before dropping into 1st gear when coming to a complete stop. This also causes the same sensation as above because you're effectively pulling away in 2nd gear.
If you sit stationary for a few seconds then pull away the vehicle picks up speed and changes through the gears as expected without the weird clutch sensation.

Since owning my vehicle I've raised my concerns several times and have been told by more than one technician and a Ford gearbox specialist that the above behaviour is normal on the Galaxy. If this is the case I'm surprised it's not been raised by other Galaxy owners.
Interestingly one technician did say there were complaints when the Powershift was initially released and a software update was released which improved it but not completely cure it.
My vehicle has the latest software releases so looks like I'll just have to accept it as it is.


Offline Metal_rules77

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk2 Auto
  • Spec: 2.0 tdci 140
  • First Name: Jerry
  • Region: East Midlands
Re: Powershift Gearbox odd behaviour or is it normal?
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2018, 12:08:21 AM »
Hi I know it's been a year since you've posted this but like you I also own this version of Galaxy, I can tell you that I have  been noticing this behaviour as well. The way I see it is as long as the car is moving the gearbox will stay in 2nd even in 5mph, when pulling off from this it's not a nice experience as the clutch appears to be slipping a lot to gain speed. After playing up with the car as I've only had it for a month, the solution is shift the lever to S or manual mode and just shift it to 1st problem solved, and to be honest I've been driving in manual mode lately as you can upshift early less than 2k rpm, in D mode it tends to rev to high before it shifts which it turn wastes fuel. I can say the gearbox isn't perfect but not bad overall, with the mpg I'm getting 40-43 mixed journeys. On motorways even better upto late 40's to late 50's if you're easy in 60mph. Mine's 64 plate zetec in Lunar sky currently 29k on the clock, I'm happy with the car coming from Grand Cmax manual. I expected the mpg to be lower but the space, comfort and safety is top notch.

Offline Daza101

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  • Model: Galaxy Mk3 Auto
  • Spec: 13 TDI 140 Titan X
  • Region: South East
Re: Powershift Gearbox odd behaviour or is it normal?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2018, 06:59:28 PM »
Hi I know it's been a year since you've posted this but like you I also own this version of Galaxy, I can tell you that I have  been noticing this behaviour as well. The way I see it is as long as the car is moving the gearbox will stay in 2nd even in 5mph, when pulling off from this it's not a nice experience as the clutch appears to be slipping a lot to gain speed. After playing up with the car as I've only had it for a month, the solution is shift the lever to S or manual mode and just shift it to 1st problem solved, and to be honest I've been driving in manual mode lately as you can upshift early less than 2k rpm, in D mode it tends to rev to high before it shifts which it turn wastes fuel. I can say the gearbox isn't perfect but not bad overall, with the mpg I'm getting 40-43 mixed journeys. On motorways even better upto late 40's to late 50's if you're easy in 60mph. Mine's 64 plate zetec in Lunar sky currently 29k on the clock, I'm happy with the car coming from Grand Cmax manual. I expected the mpg to be lower but the space, comfort and safety is top notch.

In a way I'm glad someone else has also noticed this odd behavior with the Powershift Gearbox and can't believe it's not a common complaint with the Galaxy.
As I said above a Ford Gearbox specialist from Dunton said mine behaved as expected and having test driven another 140 PS with Powershift it was also the same.
I've covered around 30k miles in our Galaxy over the last two and a half years and for the last year or so I always drive it in manual mode (S) around town because I find the automatic mode (D) gearbox behavior frustrating in traffic and in some circumstances dangerous. I've lost count of the number of times in auto mode where  I've been caught out pulling out at junctions and roundabouts. The clutch slip sensation results in the car not picking up speed as expected and I've come close to being hit by other vehicles a couple of times. From a safety perspective I don't know how Ford can sell a vehicle with such an obvious issue and not come up with a fix.
In my opinion the gearbox needs remapping so it is much quicker to drop into 1st and that should happen at a couple of mph and not necessarily when it comes to a complete stop. The biggest issue is that when picking up speed in 2nd the the clutch needs to disengage much quicker rather than drag as if the clutch is slipping.
This issue spoils the driveability of the Galaxy around town and I suspect it will cause the clutch to wear more quickly than it should. In my case this was proven because Ford said there was nothing wrong with my vehicle  at around 25k miles then had to replace the clutch pack at 30k miles because it started to judder. Luckily the clutch pack was replaced under warranty along with the gearbox oil and filter. This ultimately saved me around £300 because the gearbox oil and filter service would have been due at 37.5k miles anyway.
Our Galaxy has now done 22k on the new clutch so I'm hoping I don't have a repeat of clutch judder when it's covered similar mileage to the original. I expect replacing the clutch pack (gearbox out), oil and filter will be very expensive if Ford aren't paying through warranty.

Like you I find the Galaxy a good all rounder especially for long distance motorway driving but I just wish Ford would sort the Powershift Gearbox out. I suspect that because not many owners have raised it they will never fix it though.

 

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