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Author Topic: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank  (Read 10704 times)

Offline joet2009

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starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« on: May 18, 2015, 11:27:41 am »
Hi Guys,

Just wondering if anyone has come across this issue before.

I have a 2007 Galaxy 1.8 tdi, ghia, which will not start.

When ignition is in position 2, the headlamps and fog lights come on, turn the key and there is no crank, no click and the headlights and fog lights go out. When you return the key to position 2 they come back on.

This is a mystery as I have checked the battery, removed it and recharged it, checked all fuses and have had the immobiliser checked out also.

One interesting point to note was that the guy was looking for an immobiliser light (LED) on the dash or on the drivers door. There is none. Anyway no faults came up on the diagnostic.

Is there anything left to check ???

Many Thanks for your support.

Offline Mirez

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2015, 12:11:05 pm »
I take it you've asked the headlights and fogs to be on?

They should go out when in the start position, that's the ECU load shedding to keep the voltage up.

1) How have you checked the battery? A failing battery may appear perfectly normal but you need to measure it before, during and after the attempted crank to understand its true condition

2) The starter motor will be fed from the battery directly however built in to the starter will be a solenoid that fires the crank gear forward onto the flywheel (and then enables the motor). Your fault would be consistent with this failing, if you have a multimeter handy, find the starter and measure the volts on the solenoid drive cable during attempted crank (it'll be the smaller of the three cables but remember the larger supply will be permanently live so be careful not to short anything)
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Offline joet2009

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2015, 12:21:12 pm »
Thank you for your reply.

To clarify, the lights are switched off but come on with ignition set to position 2.

Battery was checked with a multi meter and I also tried to start with booster cables connected.

There were no starting issues prior to this fault, it happened while parked up during lunchtime. Car was driven in the morning and would not start in the afternoon.


Offline insanitybeard

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2015, 02:14:39 pm »
I don't think the Mk3 Galaxy has an immobiliser lamp in the driver's door like the Mk2 does, it'll probably be in the instrument cluster or something like that.

One important thing to try to determine is if it's an electrical fault- i.e, duff battery or starter, or an immobiliser issue preventing cranking. Do you have a spare key you can try to start it with?
Always learning..... Often by mistakes!

Offline gregers

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2015, 09:49:07 pm »
whats the battery output telling you in the on board diagnostics.
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Offline joet2009

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2015, 09:57:33 pm »
I tried the spare key - no luck

Would using booster cables not eliminate the battery as the reason for not starting. The battery was displaying 12.5 volts on the multimeter. Not sure what you mean by "on board diagnostics"

I am going to check the started motor solenoid as suggested by Mirez.

It will be tomorrow evening before I can get to it so I would be grateful for any other suggestions before then.

Thank you

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2015, 10:56:05 pm »
What vehicle were you attempting to jump start it from? If you've got a bad cell in the battery and it's breakng down under load and not providing enough 'juice' to power the starter then there's a good chance that relying on a 'remote' battery (i.e, in another vehicle) and jump leads isn't going to do it either, especially with a diesel which needs more ooomph than a petrol engine to turn it over.

Having said that you should still hear the solenoid click when you turn the key to crank position so if you can't then that's probably a good place to start. You could try to power the solenoid up directly to see if the engine turns over, if it does that eliminates the solenoid from being the cause of the fault.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 11:03:29 pm by insanitybeard »
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Offline gregers

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Offline joet2009

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2015, 03:34:32 pm »
Thanks everyone..........so here is the latest update,

A friend got the car started by bridging the starter motor, I assume this eliminates the battery and starter motor / solenoid issue. Car will still not start with the key as before.

The headlamps are still on when the car is running even though they are switched off, ventilation doesn't work, display lights but fan won't run and the airbag light is on.

Went through the self diagnostic test and there is a fault, DTC #01 C15100, battery reads 11.5V. That seems to be "Lost Communication With Restraints Control Module"

Any other ideas ???

Offline gregers

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2015, 09:12:55 pm »
new battery for a start,iirc it should be reading 12.4 at rest?
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Offline joet2009

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2015, 03:05:33 am »
That doesn't make sense to me.

The car started from the same battery when the starter motor was bridged

It seems something is preventing power getting to the starter ???


Offline insanitybeard

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2015, 11:07:20 am »
It sounds like either an immobiliser issue, a module fault or a built in inhibitor designed to prevent cranking if your battery voltage is too low. That your blowers etc aren't working either suggests one of the latter two problems. If the self diagnostic told you that the battery voltage was 11.5v then that is too low and in itself indicates a problem.
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Offline joet2009

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2015, 02:42:44 pm »
Another update,

So with previous comments regarding the battery reading 11.5V, I checked the battery again, it turned out to be a 63Ahr with CCA of 500A, the local motor factor say ford recommend an 80Ahr with 750A CCA, so I got a new battery and installed it.

No change, headlamps light up and the car would not start. The self test reads 11.2Volts. I checked the new battery on a new multimeter and it read 12.6V. The old 63Ahr battery read 12.8V.

So far, I believe, we have eliminated the battery, starter motor, solenoid, fuses, etc. The immobiliser and ignition have also been checked. The car will start off the battery when the starter motor is bridged. There is a permanent live to the starter but there is no power from the ignition.

Is there some relay/fuse on the wiring from the ignition to the starter ???

Any other comments / help / suggestions.

Many Thanks.

Offline insanitybeard

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2015, 06:35:26 pm »
Once you've got to this stage you really need wiring diagrams to refer to so you can start conducting pinpoint tests. Whether you can get hold of said wiring diagrams outside of a Ford dealership for a vehicle that is in relative terms still fairly recent is another matter. If you can get hold of a reasonably recent TIS disc it may help.

You say the ignition has been checked- how? When the ignition is turned to crank position the starter motor solenoid should be energised allowing the starter to turn the engine over (although if there is an immobiliser fault cranking may be inhibited, depending on the way the system is integrated into the vehicle). The fact that you've got other strange things going on with lights etc suggests a fault either with wiring or a module/ fusebox.
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Offline Colin Loughney

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2017, 03:34:18 pm »
Hi, did you find the problem as i have the same problem with the axact same symptoms?

Offline mike wilson

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2017, 09:50:54 am »
There will almost certainly be a relay working the solenoid of the starter motor.  Bridging direct to the solenoid from the battery eliminates this and the associated wiring, allowing a start.  I would begin by looking at the relay, as it is electromechanical and therefore the most likely culprit.  Then, it may be the ignition switch not providing juice to the relay.  After that, it's a wiring trace, starting at the relay and working back to its power source.  You would need to do this for both control and power circuits, the latter going from battery, through relay to the starter solenoid.

Offline Djchrisyork

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2020, 01:08:07 am »
Hi
I have EXACTLY the same problem on a customer's car.
Did you manage to fix it?
It would be really helpful to know what it was if you did and what it was?
Cheers

Offline ecoman

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2021, 08:35:58 am »
Old thread- sorry

Same fault with a Galaxy 2.2TDCi

Symptoms:
1) Won't turn over.
2) Ignition position 2:
2a) headlights switch on (light switch is at 0, off)
2b) Airbag warning on dashboard
2c) Cooling fans do not work.
3) can bump start with keys (even though only one immo chip coded to car!)

Will post up a list of fault codes from Forscan, but nothing stands out.

Any ideas- could be a ground lead or Instrument cluster, but what happened with the earlier posters- what was the problem?


many thanks

Offline ecoman

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2021, 10:34:20 am »
****UPDATE****

So it turns out one of the connectors near the fuse unit under the passenger footwell had "worked" loose (kids in front seats with football boots don't go together  >:().

It was the blue one to the left of the unit that had disconnected. Reconnected and the Headlights, Airbag and blowers issue sorted itself.

Still won't crank though- now have an "Immobiliser Active" fault.  Will disconnect battery for a while and see if that clears it.

Offline SirDavidAlhambra

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2021, 11:55:48 am »
Thank You for the Update

Can you reset the Immobiliser by opening and locking the doors or turning the ignition on and off, stuff like that, maybe?

 [YES]
I drive a Seat Alhambra 1.9Tdi which has 115bhp and an automatic gearbox.

I am happy to help you with all your questions. I am not a qualified mechanic but seem to be better at fixing my car than even the most experienced garages.

I have lots of friends here and very much enjoy talking with you all.

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Offline ecoman

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2021, 03:33:16 pm »
They were my thoughts (and hope) too and tried several times without success.

A passing RAC technician suggested disconnecting the battery and resetting any codes as he'd done this on many Mondeos with the same fault. Similar posts elsewhere also suggest disconnecting the battery for a while.

My Delphi reader won't connect to the Body Control Module or ABS. When I connect Forscan, very few modules are connected- it may be a Can Bus fault or a broken wire from my prodding and poking! I fear as part of my diagnostics, I've inadvertently made matters worse! If only I'd spotted the disconnected plug sooner......

I'm going to leave the battery off overnight and hope the modules reset themselves.

Offline ecoman

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2021, 03:44:59 pm »
**** EDIT*****

Should have said it is the Black connector to the left with a Blue locking collar attached to the chassis and not the Blue connector plugged into the BCM/Fuse unit.




Offline johnnyroper

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2021, 07:55:33 pm »
They were my thoughts (and hope) too and tried several times without success.

A passing RAC technician suggested disconnecting the battery and resetting any codes as he'd done this on many Mondeos with the same fault. Similar posts elsewhere also suggest disconnecting the battery for a while.

My Delphi reader won't connect to the Body Control Module or ABS. When I connect Forscan, very few modules are connected- it may be a Can Bus fault or a broken wire from my prodding and poking! I fear as part of my diagnostics, I've inadvertently made matters worse! If only I'd spotted the disconnected plug sooner......

I'm going to leave the battery off overnight and hope the modules reset themselves.


Sounds very much like there is a power supply or can bus issue to cause the problems you have with non start and unable to connect to several modules.

Recently had similar issues on a bmw it was starting but loads of faults on modules plus several I couldn?t communicate with. Don?t know about Ford but on bmw there are loads of bus lines that all communicate via a gateway module. Turned out the voltage regulator was dragging 1 bus line down which in turn caused issues on others. Modern cars are a pain in the arse.

Offline ecoman

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2021, 12:15:35 am »
thanks Johnny, whatever the fault is now, its almost certainly due to my pulling fuses and relays and tugging on wiring.

I paid for access to Ford Etis for an hour this evening and downloaded loads of wiring diagrams and a fault finding table- will take another look tomorrow.

The earliest it can be looked at by a auto electrician is a week Monday, so I have until then to keep at it. As the Immobiliser Active error is showing, it'll also need an auto locksmith before then.


Offline SirDavidAlhambra

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2021, 07:55:19 am »
Ruddy immobilisers, the only people they ever lock out of cars are the owners
I drive a Seat Alhambra 1.9Tdi which has 115bhp and an automatic gearbox.

I am happy to help you with all your questions. I am not a qualified mechanic but seem to be better at fixing my car than even the most experienced garages.

I have lots of friends here and very much enjoy talking with you all.

Always remember, a motor car is a serious tool and should be treated with respect. Put your safety first, always.

Offline brianh

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Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2021, 05:20:22 pm »
With your Forscan cable, does it have a manual switch for HS/MS modes? Mine does (as its a modified elm327) and its a bit of a pain scanning with Forscan as a result. Though once you get used to it, you scan it with the switch one way and then it asks if you have the hs/ms switch and tells you to swap around to scan the other modules. I gather the better cables have this setup in a more automatic fashion so may not need to prompt for it.

 

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