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Large MPVs -- Ford Galaxy / VW Sharan / SEAT Alhambra: => Mk3 Ford Galaxy / Ford S-Max => Topic started by: joet2009 on May 18, 2015, 11:27:41 AM

Title: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: joet2009 on May 18, 2015, 11:27:41 AM
Hi Guys,

Just wondering if anyone has come across this issue before.

I have a 2007 Galaxy 1.8 tdi, ghia, which will not start.

When ignition is in position 2, the headlamps and fog lights come on, turn the key and there is no crank, no click and the headlights and fog lights go out. When you return the key to position 2 they come back on.

This is a mystery as I have checked the battery, removed it and recharged it, checked all fuses and have had the immobiliser checked out also.

One interesting point to note was that the guy was looking for an immobiliser light (LED) on the dash or on the drivers door. There is none. Anyway no faults came up on the diagnostic.

Is there anything left to check ???

Many Thanks for your support.
Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: Mirez on May 18, 2015, 12:11:05 PM
I take it you've asked the headlights and fogs to be on?

They should go out when in the start position, that's the ECU load shedding to keep the voltage up.

1) How have you checked the battery? A failing battery may appear perfectly normal but you need to measure it before, during and after the attempted crank to understand its true condition

2) The starter motor will be fed from the battery directly however built in to the starter will be a solenoid that fires the crank gear forward onto the flywheel (and then enables the motor). Your fault would be consistent with this failing, if you have a multimeter handy, find the starter and measure the volts on the solenoid drive cable during attempted crank (it'll be the smaller of the three cables but remember the larger supply will be permanently live so be careful not to short anything)
Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: joet2009 on May 18, 2015, 12:21:12 PM
Thank you for your reply.

To clarify, the lights are switched off but come on with ignition set to position 2.

Battery was checked with a multi meter and I also tried to start with booster cables connected.

There were no starting issues prior to this fault, it happened while parked up during lunchtime. Car was driven in the morning and would not start in the afternoon.

Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: insanitybeard on May 20, 2015, 02:14:39 PM
I don't think the Mk3 Galaxy has an immobiliser lamp in the driver's door like the Mk2 does, it'll probably be in the instrument cluster or something like that.

One important thing to try to determine is if it's an electrical fault- i.e, duff battery or starter, or an immobiliser issue preventing cranking. Do you have a spare key you can try to start it with?
Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: gregers on May 20, 2015, 09:49:07 PM
whats the battery output telling you in the on board diagnostics.
Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: joet2009 on May 20, 2015, 09:57:33 PM
I tried the spare key - no luck

Would using booster cables not eliminate the battery as the reason for not starting. The battery was displaying 12.5 volts on the multimeter. Not sure what you mean by "on board diagnostics"

I am going to check the started motor solenoid as suggested by Mirez.

It will be tomorrow evening before I can get to it so I would be grateful for any other suggestions before then.

Thank you
Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: insanitybeard on May 20, 2015, 10:56:05 PM
What vehicle were you attempting to jump start it from? If you've got a bad cell in the battery and it's breakng down under load and not providing enough 'juice' to power the starter then there's a good chance that relying on a 'remote' battery (i.e, in another vehicle) and jump leads isn't going to do it either, especially with a diesel which needs more ooomph than a petrol engine to turn it over.

Having said that you should still hear the solenoid click when you turn the key to crank position so if you can't then that's probably a good place to start. You could try to power the solenoid up directly to see if the engine turns over, if it does that eliminates the solenoid from being the cause of the fault.
Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: gregers on May 21, 2015, 08:31:53 PM
this,

https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/reference-library-9/ford-smaxfocus-diagnostic-check/
Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: joet2009 on May 23, 2015, 03:34:32 PM
Thanks everyone..........so here is the latest update,

A friend got the car started by bridging the starter motor, I assume this eliminates the battery and starter motor / solenoid issue. Car will still not start with the key as before.

The headlamps are still on when the car is running even though they are switched off, ventilation doesn't work, display lights but fan won't run and the airbag light is on.

Went through the self diagnostic test and there is a fault, DTC #01 C15100, battery reads 11.5V. That seems to be "Lost Communication With Restraints Control Module"

Any other ideas ???
Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: gregers on May 23, 2015, 09:12:55 PM
new battery for a start,iirc it should be reading 12.4 at rest?
Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: joet2009 on May 24, 2015, 03:05:33 AM
That doesn't make sense to me.

The car started from the same battery when the starter motor was bridged

It seems something is preventing power getting to the starter ???

Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: insanitybeard on May 24, 2015, 11:07:20 AM
It sounds like either an immobiliser issue, a module fault or a built in inhibitor designed to prevent cranking if your battery voltage is too low. That your blowers etc aren't working either suggests one of the latter two problems. If the self diagnostic told you that the battery voltage was 11.5v then that is too low and in itself indicates a problem.
Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: joet2009 on May 25, 2015, 02:42:44 PM
Another update,

So with previous comments regarding the battery reading 11.5V, I checked the battery again, it turned out to be a 63Ahr with CCA of 500A, the local motor factor say ford recommend an 80Ahr with 750A CCA, so I got a new battery and installed it.

No change, headlamps light up and the car would not start. The self test reads 11.2Volts. I checked the new battery on a new multimeter and it read 12.6V. The old 63Ahr battery read 12.8V.

So far, I believe, we have eliminated the battery, starter motor, solenoid, fuses, etc. The immobiliser and ignition have also been checked. The car will start off the battery when the starter motor is bridged. There is a permanent live to the starter but there is no power from the ignition.

Is there some relay/fuse on the wiring from the ignition to the starter ???

Any other comments / help / suggestions.

Many Thanks.
Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: insanitybeard on May 26, 2015, 06:35:26 PM
Once you've got to this stage you really need wiring diagrams to refer to so you can start conducting pinpoint tests. Whether you can get hold of said wiring diagrams outside of a Ford dealership for a vehicle that is in relative terms still fairly recent is another matter. If you can get hold of a reasonably recent TIS disc it may help.

You say the ignition has been checked- how? When the ignition is turned to crank position the starter motor solenoid should be energised allowing the starter to turn the engine over (although if there is an immobiliser fault cranking may be inhibited, depending on the way the system is integrated into the vehicle). The fact that you've got other strange things going on with lights etc suggests a fault either with wiring or a module/ fusebox.
Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: Colin Loughney on February 12, 2017, 03:34:18 PM
Hi, did you find the problem as i have the same problem with the axact same symptoms?
Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: mike wilson on February 13, 2017, 09:50:54 AM
There will almost certainly be a relay working the solenoid of the starter motor.  Bridging direct to the solenoid from the battery eliminates this and the associated wiring, allowing a start.  I would begin by looking at the relay, as it is electromechanical and therefore the most likely culprit.  Then, it may be the ignition switch not providing juice to the relay.  After that, it's a wiring trace, starting at the relay and working back to its power source.  You would need to do this for both control and power circuits, the latter going from battery, through relay to the starter solenoid.
Title: Re: starting issue - headlamps light - engine won't crank
Post by: Djchrisyork on July 27, 2020, 01:08:07 AM
Hi
I have EXACTLY the same problem on a customer's car.
Did you manage to fix it?
It would be really helpful to know what it was if you did and what it was?
Cheers